Bluebell Railway General Discussion

When I went down to see 3205 the other day trains very busy (the Mk1's and the Vintage stock) for most of the day. The Vintage stock when ever I saw it was full although it was delayed later in the because I think 473 ran low on water and had to be topped by tanker at EG (thats what I heard anyway) so we had to wait for her to pass at Kingscote for a a little while.

 

That's a possibility. The busiest services are apparently the 10:45 and 12:00 down services from EG. There is a spare path between those, so we could run another service departing SP at, say, 10:20 and departing EG at 11:20. By using the loco for the afternoon Wealden Rambler, we wouldn't need another engine or crew (both of which are considerations) though it would be limited to 3 or 4 coaches since the WR loco is generally the E4 or H class at the moment, so about 140 tons max load. The service would also probably have to start and ultimately terminate at HK due to a lack of carriage storage space at SP. (Typically, the Mk 1 / Bulleid service set would start the day in the Newick siding; the Maunsells / Southern pre-grouping coaches, the Mets / 4 wheelers and the Pullmans would be in the SP carriage set; and the WR set would be in the dock siding by the engine shed - so that is all the storage space maxed out. Any additional service set would have to start and end the day at HK).

Sunday is a bit more problematic. The same path would work with the Golden Arrow engine. But effectively that "relief" path is the same path as the GA uses on the next "cycle", so the GA engine wouldn't be available to shunt the GA stock first thing in the morning. So we would need a dedicated station pilot on Sunday morning.

The effective line capacity is four paths at 35/40 minute intervals (i.e. 4 paths in 2.5 hours). Our normal service uses two of them and the WR / GA uses a third. So the most frequent service we could run - assuming we had enough serviceable engines and carriages - would be a three train service with gaps of 35 mins, 40mins then 75 mins and then repeat.

Tom

 

It's an interesting conundrum having more passengers than you can accommodate at certain times but not all the time. If you cater for such a peak loading, you may well find the cost doesn't justify it but, if you don't you have the problem of bad press. I can imagine the Tripadvisor report 'We went for a trip on the Bluebell but couldn't get on. We've done a 200 mile round trip and it was a waste of time and money. Don't bother going if you can't find something else to do....' Then, if you put on your proposed relief at 11.20, what is to say that it won't be swamped with passengers who would otherwise have gone on the 10.45 because that was the only choice previously.

I can see the BB getting a bit like the NYMR where most of the originating traffic is at the opposite end of the line from the resources. You end up effectively running ECS at the ends of the day to cater for such traffic flows.

 

Seems like a good idea to run an extra service train. Has anyone considered if the extra service train would be commercially viable to run? You just can't look at bums on seats. There is all the back ground costs to consider has well.

 

If there is ever a problem, it seems to be the 12:00 down train.

The "traditional" Bluebell passenger, pre-extension, caught the 11:00 am from SP, rode to the end of the line (which was then Kingscote, at which there wasn't much to do) and came straight back.

That traffic still exists (the numbers seem to suggest new traffic at EG, without diminution of numbers at SP or HK), so the 11:00 am ex-SP is our busiest "up" service. Some of those passengers are now choosing to get out at EG for an afternoon in the town, but many do what they always did - come straight back, which is the 12.00 "down" service from EG. However that is about the peak of people arriving from Network Rail for their day out, starting at EG. So if the 11:0am ex-SP is already well loaded, even, say, 100 extra passengers waiting to get on at EG will make for a very crowded 12:00 down departure. We never had that situation before - because Kingscote was effectively in the middle of nowhere with no car parking allowed, so passenger numbers were always very light, no more than a handful on most days. So almost regardless of how well loaded the old 11am from SP was, it wouldn't get worse on the return trip. No longer...

Coming back to Steve's point, the general assumption before the extension opened was that the 09:45 ex-SP would effectively be an ECS in order to get a train up to EG sufficiently early. But actually even that train has been known to carry over 100 passengers! It's certainly not an ECS. And the last evening service (5pm ex-EG) often seems busier (anecdotally, based on seeing who is lined up on the platform as you run in) than the corresponding service from Kingscote on the "old" service. My assumption is that those passengers are people who have made a day of it in EG (or even further afield) and are getting the last trip back to their car.

The operating director always said that the first year's service would be a bit of an experiment, because we didn't know how the traffic would develop. But actually the timetable seems to match quite well, give or take a few tweaks, and it also seems quite operationally robust (it's a bit less pressured for loco crew, particularly at SP where the layover is longer between trips, albeit at the expense of longer turns). The other caveat is that we still don't know what the "real" traffic level is, as presumably there is a bit of a novelty factor still. The hope is that we can use this extra income wisely, to put the railway (especially the loco and C&W situation) on a more robust level while we are still enjoying the boost.

Tom

 

Must confess this quote made me smile. We're all different, I know, but who in their right mind would (or indeed could) make a day of it in the unremitting grimness of East Grinstead?

I have quite happily spent a day tramping the footpaths and bridleways in the glorious Sussex countryside around Kingscote (where there is 'nothing to do' for the average parents 'n' kids), while arriving and departing by train.

For me, arriving at East Grinstead would certainly be a case of get straight back on the train!

 

As you say, we're all different. Maybe by "made a day of it in EG", I could have said "went to the pub for lunch!"

Though I'm not sure EG could really be described as "unremitting grimness" - I can think of plenty of worse places. It has quite a lot to offer if, for example, you happen to be interested more in architecture than in bracing country walks - though admittedly, the initial impression of a passenger who is undecided straight off the station - to stay or to go straight back - isn't brilliant. But that accusation could probably be made about lots of heritage railway stations that are in towns or villages: Alresford, Bridgnorth, Dunster etc are all lovely places, but you wouldn't necessarily know that if you just got off the train and thought "shall we walk into the town or go straight back on the train?" I assume that at least some visitors do their research beforehand!

Tom

 

I think EG is a town with two sides, the new high street is not great but the old one is quite nice with the bookshop and wooden framed buildings and so on. You do have to walk through/past modern stuff to get to the nice part, however, but there are a few nice restaurants there as well, so I could easily spend an hour or two in the town although the walk might put me off depending on who was in our party.

On another note my wife was thinking of taking the kids out for the day and her first question was "can I park in EG?" so for us the line now starts there rather than at SP. I wonder how many other people would say the same?

 

I wondered about that, but I think it is probably person-specific.

For example, if you are coming vaguely from the M25 / A22 direction, you'll drive through EG on the way to SP. So if you start your day at EG rather than SP, you have 15-20 minutes less driving each way - but you have to pay for parking, and have probably a ten minute extra walk each way from the town car park to the station. It's probably a fairly marginal call for many people. For example, if you are a bit elderly / infirm and coming from Berkshire / Surrey / North Kent sort of direction, you may prefer the longer drive and shorter walk of going to SP.

Personally (with a one year old and a three year old), last time I visited as a family, rather than to volunteer, I thought about starting at East Grinstead as we went through on our way to SP. But with children that age, the walk from SP car park up station drive is much easier than walking through the town at EG. In addition, with children that age, you know the first thing you will probably need to do after a long drive is change a nappy / feed the one year old/ take the three year old to the loo, all of which are easier where there is more space to spread out at SP.

So for people in our situation, I think SP is still the easier bet even if you drive through EG first, and I think it would be for some of our less mobile visitors. But for many others coming from the north, EG will be a more attractive option.

Tom

 

As an

As an enthusiast I will always start/finish at SP.But the general public coming from London when looking at a map may be more tempted to use EG.
It will be interesting to see how many people are using a train to get to the Bluebell at EG.
I am visiting for a couple of days starting Sunday and usually use the superb camp site in SP.

 

Nah boring i go to HK leave my wife in the car in the picnic field take a train to SP walk around the engines and museum get a train Kingscote as it was the last time i was there then train back to HK get my wife to drive home have a kip, lovely day out

 

Where is the campsite at Sheffield Park ?

 

withdrawn by nine elms fan

 

If you want to have a day being somewhere unremittingly grim when starting your journey on the Bluebell, a return fare to East Croydon is as little as £10

 

About 800m south of SP towards Lewes on the right.

 

Like Uckfield!

As a former long-term native of the area, and therefore knowing it very well, I always found places like EG and Uckfield rather depressing. Perhaps it's the whole 'end of the line commuter belt' thing? I found there was quite a large smattering of (1) "I work in the city and thus am superior" arrogance, (2) equally superior "little Johnny can do no wrong" mums in their huge sunglasses driving stupidly over-sized 4x4x4uckwit-mobiles very badly and (3) young neds who aspired to be big fish of petty criminality in a small pond. All-in-all people tended not to be particularly pleasant and, for me at least, a place is really made by its people.

Just my experience and which made towns like that, to my mind, unremittingly grim.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, like gentlemen

The obvious answer there is for the railways to invest a small sum in getting some bespoke posters designed - in the style of classic railway posters - which proclaim the virtues of the settlement in which they are situated. Put these on poster boards where they can't be missed by travellers leaving the train and hey presto, instant incentive for them to hang around.

T'aint rocket science!

 

My take is really about the perception of the town to a visitor / day tripper: what it is like to live in is a different matter. (Counter example: I don't think many people would sing the charms of Basingstoke as a place to visit. But I know of several people who speak very highly of it as a place to live).

Like these, you mean? Samples appear in the Bessemer Arms, and possibly elswhere on the railway.

http://www.heritagerailposters.co.uk/ (Done by a Bluebell, and NEP, volunteer - scroll down for the Sheffield Park, Horsted Keynes, East Grinstead and Sussex posters).

Though I'd argue it isn't strictly the railway's responsibility to produce advertising for the town, but the town's responsibility!

Tom

 

Fair comment. I did both in Uckfield and wouldn't recommend either! (The only redeeming factor I ever found in the place was a lovely girl with impressive chesticles who lived there. Just as we grew rather fond of each other, I had to move over 300 miles away in pursuit of my career and so that, alas, was that. Or wasn't that, more to the point!)

Yes, like that. East Grimstead* looks almost cute! By the way, with just a little bit of practise, Photoshop can be used to produce a passable impression of a painting from a photograph. That would be the icing on the cake of the more 'scenic' ones, IMHO. (By the way, who forgot to do the corridor connections in 'Close Encounters'? )

Indeed, but if traffic patterns end up making it desirable for the Bluebell to encourage people to stay in EG for a bit, then it does become the railway's responsibility.

I'm not being picky here, just trying to make some sort of positive suggestion (in between ripping into various Sussex towns ). At least I'm not just stood on a bridge going "This is wrong. That's wrong. They'll never do it, y'know"...

Incidentally, I spent four years on a foorbridge watching a railway being built myself - HS1. And not once in all that time did I ever feel the urge to tell the contractors that they were doing it all wrong!

* Deliberate sp.

 

Two updates of interest from the Bluebell newsletter:


Northern Extension:

Sheffield Park Canopy

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Tom​

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all is very good news!!
congratulations Mr White PW dept and Friends of Sheffield Park ...keep up the good(excellent) job!
kindest regards
Noel