Bluebell track laying South from EG?

my remark was as a one off fund raising special where the bluebelle could by using its assetts, try to attract the funds it needs why not try it its not going to cost them , only the hire of an ed or 33 which would probaly have to bring the unit from bournmouth anyway and take it back

 

The VEP was in the EG Station tonight when I went past, its been there for weeks.

 

Going off topic slightly but to add on the diesel discusion above, I always understood that it simply is the Bluebell runs all of its public services by steam, so that any visitor who visits knows they will be hauled by steam (barring the very rare failure of an only engine in steam etc). There were private charters with the Class 73 (see picture!) a while ago and I am sure there will be some with the 4VEP in the future if there is demand for them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alts1985/3480733937/in/set-72157624840067013

 

the HLF is not there to bail out private comanies which the BR is;

I believe they got a wedge of it for Operation Undercover though as that bit's a cherridy

 

and not exactly secure either; can't they move it out of the way of scrotes with sprayguns?

(I believe Eastleigh won't tke it back)

 

I'm not connected with the Bluebell, merely an interested observer, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Bluebell is in an enviable position of owning quite a few of its steam locomotives. That being the case, the idea that borrowing a couple of million to finish the extension would somehow put the future of the railway in jeopardy is ludicrous. At worst, it would put the future of say half a dozen locomotives in doubt - yes, that may not be paletable to some, but provided that there is a plan to continue to raise the cash and pay back the loan, I can't honestly see what the problem is. Opening the extension will open up new income streams anyway.
And if a 'plan B' is needed and the railway doesn't want to borrow from the banks, it could simply sell some of those locomotives outright. It would be relatively easy, I'd suggest, to find a wealthy enthusiast who would care for them and keep them on the Bluebell anyway, probably including a sell-back clause too if you liked.
If it is true that the cost of digging out the tip is really about to go through the roof like that, and the funds simply aren't coming in fast enought, then I'd have thought it was a no-brainer.

Phil

 

It probably is a no-brainer to borrow the money to do the job, especially with interst rates as low as they are and I'll bet that they've already had discussions with the bank. However, I can't see the BB going down this route until the last minute as the donation income stream would probably dry up overnight once the money was secured. At the moment, donations are still coming in and every pound from this source is a pound less to borrow.

 

not sure how true that is; many of the locos are owned by various other (charitable) societies and housed on the Bluebell; even if they were the capital cost is probably beyond most operators

however that pig ugly Marsh Atlantic they are building from scratch could probably wait a few milennia years while they divert funds to the extension instead :biggrin1:

 

This all sounds fine in theory, though as you say, many locos are owned by other groups (such as the Maunsell Soc) rather than by the Bluebell outright.

But more significantly, even if we put a few locos on the market, would there be any buyers? There are a couple of GW 28xx as far as I know that have been offered for sale for a few hundred k each which attracted no takers, so it is very doubtful you could raise much money that way. How much would someone pay for, say, a knackered Terrier like Stepney? To the Bluebell it is a priceless flagship, but I doubt anyone else in their right mind would pay more than £50k (if you were lucky) for it, given the amount of work needed to bring it back to working order, and the relative scarcity of lines that would find it useful (lets face, it, most of the lines that would want a Terrier already have a couple each!) I believe that in the first 5 or 6 months of the year we were raising twice that every month, so really selling locos will make almost no difference.

Some of us are paying for that engine!

But anyway, it simply isn't possible to divert funds that way. The money held in the bank by the Bluebell Trust for the Atlantic (which was a couple of hundred thousand at the last set of accounts as I recall) has been donated specifically to build the Atlantic; therefore, it would be against charity law to use it for any other purpose, at least not without contacting many hundreds of donors to request a change in use. You can't even spend it now on the extension and recover the money from general funds next year. The same goes for all the other amounts held in restricted funds. You could argue that taking donations for other projects diverts them from the northern extension, but actually there is no evidence for that; many people have a favourite project and donate specifically because that is their favourite. Moreover, on a another thread we were discussing the relative shortage of locos at the Bluebell (especially modern, not completely worn out 100 year old ones): the Atlantic should be seen in that context as not only a pet loco for many members frustrated that they missed saving an iconic LBSC design by a few months back in the 1950s, but also as a highly useful class 4 loco that will be in relatively good condition for many years into the future.

The current situation is that 7 weeks of digging are booked this year (starting with three weeks from July 4th); money for this is either already in the bank, or the board are confident that it will be by time it is needed. (3 weeks in July; 2 in August; 2 in September / October, at £125k per week). Dependent on fundraising, that then leaves either 5 weeks (=£600k) next year to dig a path from end to end, leaving a small amount of rubbish behind; or else I suppose digging it all out which I think would probably be nearer 10 weeks. Assuming West Sussex CC agree to a change in planning conditions to leave some of the tip behind; the Environment Agency agree and civil engineering and insurance questions can be resolved satisfactorily, that means the current funding gap is £600k. That basically is what is needed to push a gap through the tip from end to end. There will be additional expense to lay rails and commission signalling etc before the line becomes operational, but those can afford to wait until after April 2012 if necessary. That is the position as set out at the AGM.

My own bet (hope?) is that the more that is dug out (especially the seven weeks this year) and the smaller the funding gap gets, the quicker money will come in at the end of the project. So if you want to see us run to EG anytime soon, now is the time to donate!

Tom

 

Removing funds from another project that people have donated towards would most probably stop people from donating again. This type of idea is a non starter in my opinion.

 

Indeed - not to mention being against the law!

Tom

 

you will notice from my smily that I wasn't being serious about the Atlantic (still think it's ugly though but that's me; I happen to like ED's :yuck: and BR standards; there were 3 when I joined 13 years ago)

the point I was making is that the Bluebell (like most preserved lines) is a broad church composed of many groups with many different aims; not all of which are 100% the extension, so it's hard to just conjure up money in such circumstances

Tom; I'll be watching the next extraction phase and the projected progress with optimism that you get as far as you plan

 

Agree with a lot of sensible points from the last couple of pages. Getting back to spoil removal commercial considerations for a minute does anyone know why the wagons currently used are the "flat" (low capacity) type? I know that both Network Rail and DBS posess a much larger capacity bogie wagons for ballast and bulk mineral transport (I've heard these called monster box wagons) so fewer trains would be required to remove the spoil and fewer wagon movements would be needed thus speeding up the loading process. There are also high capacity tippler wagons which are very quick to unload rather than needing a grab to remove the spoil at the other end.
The large wagons are rated at 100tonnes but the waste weighs far less per cu metre than ballast so I'd be surprised if weight restrictions applied but glad to be corrected.
Final question - is there still room in the Ardingly triangle for more spoil? If so can we look forward to seeing the waste going north and the clay capping going south simultaneously?

 

I seem to recall there is a weight restriction somewhere on the route. That is why the wagons are weighed.

 

There is a weight restriction on one of the bridges, possibly Cook's Pond Viaduct.

 

Nonesense !!!

Chris

 

The Bluebell Railway's Extension update for 6th March 2011 states that there are load restrictions on the route between East Grinstead and South Croydon. Argue with that!!!.

 

Actually , according to Chris White there is Chris.

If my memory serves me correct , there is one just north of East Grinstead at St Margerets Junction.

Regards
CW:

 

There is a bridge restriction but isn't the weighing to do with disposal at the new landfill site?

 

The weighing is to ensure that they conform to the weight restriction on the East Grinstead branch. I think it is also a requirement that the wagon mass is entered into TRUST(?) before the train crosses onto Network Rail metals.

Regards,

Dan