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Border Raider 13/04/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by bleeder4, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Kylchap

    Kylchap Member

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    Good points and something that is often forgotten. There are so many variables* that affect a specific performance of a steam locomotive that we should be wary of comparing individual performances.

    * Skill of fireman and driver, familiarity with the loco, coal quality, time since last washout, thoroughness of preparation by shed staff, railhead conditions . . . . . .
     
  2. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    There are plenty of variables, a dynamometer car overcomes some but the industry recognised the need for a test plant to get valid scientific comparisons. However, the quickest should be fairly easy; the lowest elapsed time between two fixed points?

    This may or may not correlate to the highest average HP between the two points - this is where, speed, gradient, the weight of the loco and train, the number and type of coaches and hence the frictional drag and wind drag must all be taken into account. The answer, involving a calculation, will be, without a means of direct measurement, a reasonably accurate assessment. Even seemingly “like for like” trains may require a higher force to pull them along; slight brake drag, high side wind etc.

    Even though the average HP between the points may be identical, for short sections within the overall climb one loco may have been, for a short period producing significantly more HP than the other (all other factors being equal). A different run (with the same load) that was slower than either may have within it a short burst(s) of much higher HP.

    So “fastest time” - no problem. “Best run” - don’t know what this means. “Highest HP” - if close, compare with caution
     
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  3. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Log of the return run attached. Yes it was very special, meriting a bit more than the "rather impressive" I posted from Grayrigg loop on the day!

    From Carlisle station there is an initial 1/4 mile of 1:100 up followed by a half mile level stretch before the climb recommences at Upperby Jn, with nearly four miles of 1:131 to just before Wreay. By Upperby Bridge Jn Tornado was well in her stride and the 3.56 miles from there averaging 1:134 saw speed increase from 36 mph to 47 mph, worth 1,663 edhp.

    The gradient eases at Wreay and the next 2.49 miles to Southwaite are at an average of 1:218, speed increasing further from 47 to 57 mph, working out at 1,757 edhp.

    On to Calthwaite the gradient averages 1:201 for the next 3.28 miles, speed increasing marginally from 57 to 58 mph suggesting 1,577 edhp, indicating a slight slackening in the effort.

    For the 2.46 miles from Calthwaite to Plumpton the grade averages 1:363. Speed increased from 58 to 66, worth 1,720 edhp.

    Beyond Plumpton the gradient eases further, with even a slight downhill. The 4.73 miles to Penrith average only 1:443 up, and Tornado took full advantage, romping through Penrith at 74 mph. This further acceleration worth 1,653 edhp.

    There appears to be a short quarter just south of Penrith, which confuses milepost timings, and it doesn't help that milepost 50 3/4 is on the up side, although it is directly above the central reservation of the M6! The line falls at 1:191 for a quarter of a mile to Penrith South Jn and I reckon a max of 76 here, maybe a tad more, and maybe a slight easing in deference to the 75 limit? Climbing recommences on the Eamont viaduct. The fluctuating grades make horsepower calcs difficult, but Penrith to Eden Valley Jn averages 1:351 up, worth say 1,421 hp.

    By Eden Valley Jn the whole train is on the lengthy 1:125 which extends to Harrisons Sidings, and here Tornado was pressed even more. From 72 mph at Eden Valley Jn speed settled down to around 60 mph on the 1:125, worth 1,972 edhp sustained for over 6 miles.

    The gradients then ease on to the former Shap station, the next 1.94 miles averaging 1:172. But there was no letting up of the effort, speed increasing to 62 mph past the former station building with a 63 max afterwards, still worth 1,952 edhp.

    The last couple of miles to Shap summit include a half mile at 1:106 and another half mile at 1:130 before the summit level is reached at approx 38 miles 15 chains. The loco appears to have been eased slightly, speed falling to 58 before rallying to 61 on the level past the summit sign at 37m 50c. I calculate 1,581 edhp for the 2.10 miles from Shap station to the summit name board (average 1:188).

    The whole 30.09 mile climb from Upperby Bridge Jn to Shap Summit works out an average of 1:196, worth an average 1,700 edhp. A superb effort.

    Comparison with Blue Peter

    I have studied the logs of 60532 Blue Peter's epic run with 10 coaches on 10 July 1999 available in the RPS archive and elsewhere and have sought permission from the compilers to reproduce them here. Suffice to say Tornado got off to the better start and was 15-20 sec ahead at Upperby Bridge Jn, but Blue Peter was pressed even harder on the opening stretch and was nearly a minute up by Plumpton. But Tornado's big push came later and the A1 gradually reeled in the A2, overtaking just before the summit, the A2 suffering injector problems resulting in an easing. Indeed it was "reported in coach H" when we got to Crewe that Tornado had minor problems with an injector, otherwise the summit could have been passed at 65 mph.

    Even taking account different recording positions in the train I think it is safe to say that Tornado now has the preserved steam record southbound from Carlisle (start) to Shap summit (pass).

    That's enough for now, further comparisons to follow.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thank you for an excellent report and log of a memorable trip south.
     
  5. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    +1
     
  6. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Sean, have had some info from a man who really knows.

    '...on the Raider about 2 miles from the top the exhaust injector knocked off. It does that if it gets ‘cooked’ by the high temperature of the exhaust heat coming to it. That’s why the loco was eased.

    No thrashing and never below 225psi on the climb says my chap who was up front. Just driver and fireman doing the job.'
     
  7. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks Graham, that nicely explains the easing near the top. The A1SLT like an improvement/modification, so what's it to be cooling fins or refrigerant coils for the injector?
     
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  8. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    I will eventually add my own thoughts of the day - I'm not sure my 8 year old son quite realizes just how lucky he is! What an performance for your first tour behind Tornado and up Shap! On all previous tours I've video'd some of the running but for some unknown reason I've got very little of this one - rather annoyed with myself - I think I was too transfixed with the noise coming from the front! Does anybody have any Video/youtube links either shot from the train or lineside of the climb of Shap that they would be willing to share?
     
  9. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    I've searched in vain, so here's hoping someone comes up with the goods. Also really disappointed to find zero mention in today's Beano. Didn't someone up-thread (@gricerdon maybe) say they were writing a piece on this? If so, which mag please?
     
  10. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Yes full details in the next HR out two weeks today.
     
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  11. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    In correspondence with various colleagues in RPS and it appears the further opening out after Eden Valley Jn on the 1:125 saw outputs rise to around 2,250 edhp.

    But not thrashed as Shireman says, and sometimes the gen in coach H is on the mark.

    The Sobering thought is that Duchess of Abercorn matched Tornado's time to Penrith with its 610 ton, 20 coach, test train - but was apparently rather winded by the experience and was eased back considerably for the remainder of the climb to Shap.

    This was one of those days out when you knew it was special when it was happening. I certainly couldn't contain my excitement, which doesn't always shine through the logs and analysis. Thanks to all involved.

    And next time how about non-stop to Preston. Minor tweaking to get through Lancaster in the small gap between the stopper via the coast and the TPE should do it!
     
  12. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, might be time for change methinks :)
     
  13. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    In retrospect - amazing what a difference a year makes - especially given that this trip was almost exactly a year to the day from Tornado's failure on the Ebor Flyer. Fingers crossed for more of the same performances and tours in the coming years.
     

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