If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    669
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The only reference I can find in the Locomotive Standards Sub Committee is the October 1960 minutes which under the heading of "Bogie and Pony Truck Wheels" states

    Further to Mr. Sykes' letter of 15/9/60 to Chief Mechanical Engineer (copies circulated to all Chief Mechanical & Electrical Engineers) referring to further cases of fractured wheel centres, Brighton has prepared schemes for a strengthened design see drawing SL/BR/1670).

    Brighton will arrange to have pattern altered for replacement wheels on Southern Region. This modification is available to other Regions.
     
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sorry IanH I dont actually know which drawings we have, i have the list of Ex. Derby drawings that the NRM have but as this a Brighton one not likely to be on unless they unless had/made a copy themselves and i think ..
     
  3. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    669
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There is a list of drawings for BR Standards which you can find at https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/research-and-archive/further-resources/catalogues and selecting the A-E option

    When I starting cataloguing the drawings and looking for drawings for Class 6, I came across SL/DE/1678 with the BFB design. It looks like Brighton were tasked in 1960 with looking at the problem of fractured wheel centres and perhaps (inevitably!) came up with a BFB design.
     
  4. 8126

    8126 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    960
    Gender:
    Male
    The only reference I've read giving a specific reason for this is Winkworth's 'Bulleid's Pacifics' which states (on page 26 in my copy): "Reduction in boiler pressure from 280 to 250 lb per sq in was commenced in March 1954, permitting a standard grade of steel to be used for firebox stays instead of a special grade difficult to obtain. A side effect of this reduction was the better functioning of the injectors."
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not previously aware of that reference. Many thanks.
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    25,538
    Likes Received:
    55,066
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I seem to recall somewhere (Bradley?) that the change came about after prolonged observation on the footplate showed that the locos were driven in a way that very rarely exceeded 250psi on the steam chest pressure gauge; presumably at that point the benefits of reduction you outline could be shown to have relatively minimal adverse impact on real-world (as opposed to theoretical) performance.

    Tom
     
  7. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,907
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I've read that too, but it went further. Because of the unreliability of the steam reverser, which tended to lengthen the cut off as the engine ran, drivers gave up trying to pull it back and ended up driving on the regulator, so the chances of using full regulator were very limited.

    Or so it said . . .
     
    MellishR likes this.
  8. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    1,384
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Bradley gives a list of dates for the reduction in pressure for each loco (p29), commencing in July 1952. Interestingly, Burrows and Wallace do not comment on the pressure reduction in their paper on experience with the steel fireboxes given to the ILocoE of February 1958. Their only comment on change in stay material was in connection with the replacement of steel by monel in the breaking areas.
    There is a similar comment in the Jarvis biography (p.127).
     
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Theres a Jarvis Biog ?
     
  10. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    1,384
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ron Jarvis by J E Chacksfield, Oakwood Press.
     
    class8mikado likes this.
  11. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    266
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Used to be in civil engineering, highway bridges.
    Location:
    Tyne and Wear
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I see some more slow and steady progress is being made!!
    I admire your determination to work in the current conditions lads, in-door you may well be but it is still a cold environment.
    see https://www.theclanproject.org/Clan_News.php
     
    30854 and Bluenosejohn like this.
  12. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    669
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    We think we're pretty close to hitting a major milestone this week - the completion of the bogie wheelsets. The only drawings we had were the arrangement drawings which were a BR "rebadge" of a Timken drawing. These drawings gave the dimesnions of the solid cann boxes but we have not been able to locate any detailed drawings for the internal components. After creating our own manufacturing drawings, Timken, very helpfully, agreed to check them for us. The actual build has been fairly straightforward and no major issues have emerged with assembly at South Devon Railway Engineering. Of course, the proof of the pudding will come when they actually run on a railway!

    See https://www.theclanproject.org/Clan_News.php for photos
     
  13. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    266
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Used to be in civil engineering, highway bridges.
    Location:
    Tyne and Wear
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Sheff likes this.
  14. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,780
    Likes Received:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Eh!
     
    andalfi1, Bluenosejohn and LMS2968 like this.
  15. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    1,929
    It's a question I wondered about, too - are the Clan Group actually using finer tolerances than Crewe were able to in the 1950s?
     
  16. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,039
    Likes Received:
    2,178
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    I would have thought "finer tolerances" would maybe, in certain areas, create problems. The whole structure of a locomotive flexes considerably which it has been learned over the many years. I think quality control is more the area of great benefit that you may be alluding to, which is evident here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
  17. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    1,929
    Really interesting, many thanks.
     
    osprey likes this.
  18. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,288
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    At the time Tornado was being built I heard various mutterings that it was being built to too tight tolerances by a bunch of aerospace engineers and would seize solid the first time it would run.........
     
    osprey likes this.
  19. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    Which all goes to show that mutterers are there to be ignored. None of them are aware of the Swindon Engineering Society and the Ordinary Meeting of October 25th 1955.
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    KJ Cook ?
     

Share This Page