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BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    So true;, one Tends to be a bit biased towards those heroically proportioned steamers that one wants to see, a P2, a canned Merchant navy a 47xx, in my case but these are mainliners. and the mainline seems to be pretty well stocked, and if a loony youtuber gets splattered then there coiuld be a chronic case of over stocking

    Both the BR standard new build projects seem destined for preserved lines only (though that light footed clan could come in really handy on certain railtours) whilst less glamerous its going to be handy. Other than certain classes that will survive due to sheer weight of numbers (Black 5's, 8f's GW Halls, Panniers, Prairies) the smaller BR Standards are likely to be the Bread and butter performers on our preserved lines in the future with a limited rostering of precious originals as the jam, and as the Barry supply has all but dried up, then new builds like this are the way forward.

    The standard 6 and standard 3 are probably the Top and bottom end of the kind of performance required on our preserved lines (5 to 8 bogies, <25mph up a 1 in 50 - one does worry about how lightfooted the standard 6 is) and all testaments to these designs are similar - unfussy to fire, easy to service, easy to clean so im sure with this demand that Hengist et al will come to pass. Had i the money then i would have bought its cylinders and valve gear for christmas (but it would have to be caprotti)
    Even if neither of these projects rocks your boat the gradual accumulation of standard parts, patterns etc bodes well for a future supply of Standards whether its 3,s 4,s 5's 6's or even 7's. Personally mines got a 9f Pony truck, 8 x standard 3 drivers, a standard 7 boiler and trailing truck a 9f cab and a BR1F Tender...
     
  2. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    I’m sure there would be enough main line work out there for 72010. Just look at how well 73096 coped with main line work and she use to run with ten or eleven on and put up some great performances.
     
  3. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    I'd rather a 91xxx design with some more modern thinking into it, than an americanised 5AT.
     
  4. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Slight digresion but; John, you clearly know which animal i am refering to, would they really have been numbered 91XXX ? - Ive read up a fair amount on it but have missed this snippet. As for modernisation if it was no more modern than a 9F that would suit me... ok then i give in tweak the combustion, draughting , compensate the springing on the drivers...
     
  5. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    I have just been looking through some of the threads from 2008 about the prospects for Tornado and Hengist. Fascinating in hindsight. Tornado has made it, yes even with the inevitable boiler troubles, let's look forward to seeing Hengist, as well as the other Standard new builds and restorations. There is definitely an advantage in being able to use standard parts amongst a pool of engines, even if there are only a few parts really interchangeable. I concur that the Hengist web site is missing the wheels, and an easy way to subscribe, and is a bit out of date, but perhaps they are so busy trying to raise funds and build it?
    Hopefully some of these faults with the website will be rectified shortly. In the coming time of tightening our belts, let's try and keep these fine engineering projects alive.
     
  6. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Just to advise folk that the website has been updated and shows an incredible amount of progress over the last few months.
    Yes, lots still to do but keep watching the website for news. Many parts still need sponsorship at any level. Look at the sales shop and there is some interesting items in there as well.
    Keep the faith!
     
  7. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Web site updated again. Great progress on frames, things are really moving on now. Still no wheels yet though, any offers?
     
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Got to be a worthwhile investment, 3 other locos might need these patterns sooner or later.
    Theres plenty of Boxpocks lying around doing nothing....
     
  9. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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    Wouldn't it make sense to concentrate on the frames (with all those stretchers, horns, brackets and cylinders etc.) before you worry about the wheels? At least that way (if you move it) you've only got one lump to cart around rather than many. Don't follow the example of one other new build, going for the big headlines without making sure the fundementals are in place.
     
  10. 82045MS

    82045MS Member

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    Exactly our thinking on the 82045 team! Check out http://www.82045.org.uk/news/news-PDFs/82045-Newsletter-13.pdf.

    Regards
    Barbara
     
  11. b.oldford

    b.oldford Member

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    What is most remarkable is how some parts that would seem to be interchangeable aren't yet others have an astonishing degree of interchangeability.

    Examples being the same diameter wheels and same stroke on 76XXXs as 82XXXs/77XXXs yet different numbers of spokes; yet the cylinder castings on all are the same.

    Equally interestingly is the similarity between the wheel castings on the 73XXXs, 72XXXs, 70XXXs and 71000.
     
  12. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    (Wouldn't it make sense to concentrate on the frames (with all those stretchers, horns, brackets and cylinders etc.) before you worry about the wheels?)
    I think that is exactly what the group are doing!
    They are amassing all the small bits as they go and are concentrating on fairly specific 'lumps' of engine at a time. Note the just about completed cab.
    Unfortunately, some possible benefactors like to see large bits before they contribute.
    It's a happy balance I think.
     
  13. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Might I ask where are the frames at the moment? Are they still being assembled at Riley & Son or are they currently in store? And I wonder where the assembly location will be once the project reaches a stage where it becomes difficult to move around in the manner of the last decade?
     
  14. gavferg

    gavferg New Member

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    it would be nice to see more images of the progress as well as the more recent text updates, the www is primarily visual medium and personally i tend to linger more where loco/ railway restoration groups have regular new images; these groups also seem to have a stronger following maybe leading to more shareholders/ donations. thinking back this is where I've sent what little I'm able to spare, ie WHR, 82045, Tornado etal. I fully understand the difficulties involved after many year of managing a few small sites eventually shutting down the ones that stagnated.

    in no way is this comment a criticism of the incredible effort it must take to keep this project going forward; just a hint on how casual observers relate website dynamics to the actual product/ project. sadly there plenty of petrified restoration web sites about so it is easy to assume the same about the sites subject.
     
  15. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Last I heard the frames are at Rileys awaiting all the structural members before erection can start, it looks like most of those items are now ready.
    The point about current photos is valid and will be passed on to the web-master. The website does have a selection of progress photos on for the various parts and does get up-dated whenever he has time to do it probably.
     
  16. nickt

    nickt Member

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    Southern Locomotives handles this by having a website which gets updated occasionally plus Fotopic galleries. The advantage of Fotopic is that it is designed for easy loading and display of hundreds of photos, whereas loading a photo on to a website takes more time and skill, and photos are liable to slow down webpages.

    http://southernlocomotivesltdphotogallery.fotopic.net/
     
  17. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Latest update is that donations are sought for the cylinder pattern (£24,000 quoted). Same pattern as for Class 7 Britannia locos so could be useful in the future. How about it folks?
    Other news on the website as well.(www.72010-hengist)

    Cheers.
     
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Part of the furniture

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    Good luck with the appeal. Out of interest, and apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, does the new build intend to incorporate the 'improvements' (if known) planned for the aborted second batch, of which 72010 would have been part?

    http://www.railuk.info/steam/getsteam.php?row_id=21516
    "The order to build the second batch of 'Clans' was known by its Crewe Works Order No, Lot 242. This authorised the construction of a batch of Fifteen 'Clans' to be built including the modifications to improve on the originals. Doubtless the improvements would have been passed on to the first 10 given time. Originally scheduled for 1952, due to acute steel shortages it was put back to 1954 then 1955/6. The publication of the infamous BR Modernisation Plan ("The Future of British Railways") finally killed the project off."
     
  19. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    does the new build intend to incorporate the 'improvements' (if known) planned for the aborted second batch, of which 72010 would have been part?

    Yes it is the intention to do that. Fortunately the drawings etc were prepared for the new batch, indeed it is said some were under construction, when the order was cancelled. The 10 were modified during their brief life in several ways as problems with them and other Standards came to light. 71000 has also received the modifications + others and look at the difference there. Hengist should be nearly spot-on, given decent coal!! Between the 4 big standards eventually running it could be interesting to compare them and who knows, even do modifications?? Perhaps I'm dreaming now.
     
  20. Sheff

    Sheff Part of the furniture

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    Can you summarise what the mods proposed were please? I've heard about blast pipe diameter and frame/springing arrangements, that all.
     

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