BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

On the record is that Stratford shed liked its Brits and looked after them very well, off they record they we're never going to have some taken away and replaced by anything that wasn't as strong and 'dis(mis)sed' the Clan accordingly
You can also take note that a 'B1 in good condition' was a fairly rare and somewhat shortlived entity on the GE.
Its on record that a black 5 couldnt keep to the timings on trains given to Clans . Is B1 a stronger engine than a Black 5. ? .. sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt...

Perhaps the railway exec were keen to see how their light Pacifics would fare against the Bulleids with a view to doing something about the latter...

Whatever the alleged shortcomings of its Class, 72010 has the opportunity to be 'tuned'. It will be a good un and thats the main thing....

 

A Clan on the S&D? now that will be interesting in a few years time.

 

An short article on yesterdays working party and some photos are now available on the website. Unfortunately I couldn't attend but from what I hear the day was enjoyable and fruitful!

 

A photograph of a standard cab has appeared on the Heritage Railway Magazine page. It was taken at Nemesis Rail, Burton-on-Trent. Is this Hengists cab?

 

Yes it is most of the cab, the rest of it is also at Nemesis, pretty much complete apart from the boiler to mount it on.

 

I've read a book by Paul Beevor(?) who suggests an error made after 1948 was the BR regions (with the exception of the Scottish Region) continued in the way of their predecessor Big 4. PB writes that some Black 5s and B1s should have been sent to the Southern Region and some Bulleid pacifics sent North. He cites West Countries allocate to the NE Region for perhaps, the S&C route whilst Merchant Navies would have gone to the Midland and worked Liverpool - Glasgow services. The author then states with that policy, there would have been no need for the BR Standards to have been built.
The biggest distribution appears to have been panier tanks going to Clapham and Perth.

 

All very good ideas and something we're keen to to progress. Online membership has also been mentioned to make it easier for people to join the project. There is a reason for not being able to setup Direct Debits which escapes me for the minute just as many other projects that run as charities and trusts can only accept Standing Orders (although I'm keen to be corrected if someone knows any better).

On a positive note we're pleased to report that the steel plate for the new frames has arrived safely at Stephenson Engineering and will be followed up by the delivery of the new horn guides next week and a meeting with the Engineering Committee, Stephenson Engineering, Wayne Jones & Partners (our VAB/CB) and Ian Rileys to agree the cutting of the plates and the welding procedures for the horn guides the following weekend.
There is also a nice list of components awaiting casting and awaiting order, more news on the website as soon as it happens. In the meantime if anyone fancies donating a the price of a litre of fuel or a pint of beer it will be put to very good use!

Dave

 

Some great news. The horn guides have now been cast and fettled and are on their way to Stephenson Engineering. The plate for the new frames has also been delivered to Stephenson Engineering ready to be cut, profiled and the horn guides welded in.
Still in the production process :

• Second combined frame stretcher / spring hangar
• Rear combined stretcher / brake cylinder support stretcher

Other components are in the procurement stage such as the exhaust steam spider and the slide bar brackets. The plan is to manufacture all of the components together and assemble all in one go due to the number of components sharing the same frame mountings.

We still need your help! Please consider donating at https://www.72010-hengist.org/appeals any amount is gratefully received and your name will be placed on our Frame Appeal roll of honour on the website!

The website has been updated with the latest news and a new blog entry at http://www.72010-hengist.org and http://www.72010-hengist.org/blog

Dave

 

Excellent news Dave. This project really is making great strides forward nowadays.

 

This is a collection of Racey photos from Mr Dimmer that is worth a look for Clan-o-philes, it appears on another thread but Clan photos are a bit rare so a link on here is worthwhile

Duke of Gloucester & Standard Clans
http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/BRStandardSteam/Duke-of-Gloucester-Clans

One or two are certainly images 'worth recreating' , the smaller Clan boiler really lends these locos a lean and leggy look

 

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The last few months have been very busy for the Clan Project, with the new frames being cut imminently and the new horn guides delivered to Stephenson Engineering the project really is picking up pace.
The second combined frame stretcher is nearing the end of its fettling session at Norton Cast Products along with the combined stretcher / brake support stretcher. These will shortly be moved to our Midlands base along with other components ready for the assembly to start next year.
The combined stretcher pattern will then return to our pattern maker for final changes ready to cast the third, and final, combined stretcher. We are hoping for this to be completed in December.
We are looking at the exhaust system of the loco, more news to follow as this exciting sub-project progresses.
Enquiries have gone out for the slide bar brackets, these will be assembled along with the other stretchers as it shares rivet and bolt holes with other components. Enquiries are also being made for the exhaust spider and smokebox saddle fabrications.
So why are we going down this route of one huge assembly session rather than adding components as they are cast / fabricated and machined? The frame components share a lot of rivet and fitted bolt holes with each other. We could have used temporary bolts and frame spacers but the cost of moving the frames between Stephenson Engineering and Ian Riley and Son (Bury) would have been money better spent on components and machining. What we will have in the next 18 months will be a set of complete frames being delivered in one piece to the GCR. From that base we can then start work with wheeling the frames and having cylinders cast. We already have the smokebox barrel, ring, door, sacrificial plate, door furniture, chimney, buffers, draw gear, smoke deflectors, hand rails and front steps so it is very likely the front end will take on the face of a Clan not seen in nearly 50 years very quickly once the frames are delivered. We already have the cab structure which is mounted to the boiler although temporary brackets may be fabricated to allow the cab to sit 'on' the frames.
These are exciting times and if you can help us in any way by becoming a member or assisting one of the teams at sales events and working parties please get in touch.

With Christmas around the corner please consider using Easy Fund Raising to help raise funds for the Clan Project. With over 2300 online stores including John Lewis, Argos, eBay, Amazon and many many more (even Dominos pizzas!) not only can you make Christmas shopping easier but you can also help raise funds for the Clan Project at zero cost to yourself. Our Easy Fund Raising link can be found here.

Due to a kind donation from a member we also have a number of Bachmann OO gauge locos and carriages. These will be appearing on the website including an LNER A2 'Blue Peter' Collectors club edition complete with detailing kit. These, together with the branded merchandise available in our store, would make great Christmas gifts!

 

Well done guys. Glad things are going well.

I do have a couple of questions, will you be using any polystyrene patterns to save money? Its has saved us a small fortune so far. And we also went into our container on saturday and looked at all our wooden patterns and thought what are we supposed to do with these now?!? Storage for such large items seems such a waste of space and money having to buy/rent containers to keep them in. Unless of course they are useful with other locos, ours are not.

Kind regards Gavin

 

I would assume quite a number of parts are common with the other BR Standards, including some of the large ones. Wheels, Axleboxes etc etc - same as Brit and DoG etc etc. Of course the Patriot is a different kettle of fish. Although I seem to recall Gav and Co struck lucky with the wheels.

 

Wheels yes your 100% right we benefitted from galatea.
And of course I would say yes to anyone with regards a wheel pattern as this would be 6poly patterns other wise. But im thinking of the more specific parts.

Are the cylinders interchangable? I know we have had all our front bogie parts made via polly, and the motion girders, motion brackets, cylinders, and if we could re start we would have done the same with regards frame stretchers. Just a thought really, its working for us but might not work for other projects.
Kind regards Gavin

 

Thanks for the question!
We will be using poly patterns for some one (or two) off components, possibly starting with the slide bar brackets where no wooden patterns exists. Other components share commonality with the other BR Standards and BR SLOG have a big selection of patterns between the member groups. We need to make a pattern for our driving wheels and as Gav says 6 poly-patterns would cost more than one wooden pattern. Also 3D files used to create the poly patterns take up a lot less space than wooden equivalents!

Dave

 

I see an interesting debate beginning to emerge here. There is a break-point where it is cheaper in the short-term to use a disposable pattern. It leaves the question "At what point, considering possible future needs, is it more effective to use a re-usable wood or resin pattern?".

As a pattern maker working in traditional materials it is arguable that I have a vested interest in seeing durable patterns made, however for very small runs of large components that are extremely unlikely to ever be needed again even I must agree the arguments certainly stack up for disposables.

However even that argument isn't entirely clear cut. As has been noted up-thread and with the Patriot project, even when only a very few castings were expected to be needed, there have been cases where castings have to be remade due to unforeseen/unfortunate circumstances.

 

Question for you all.
What component is common to the Patriots and the Clans?
Clue-it is a casting.

 

Probably not what you were thinking but I'll try the connector on the end of the vac bag?

 

Afraid not, but probably will be the same on the new builds.

 

I do recall mention of one or two components that can be used on a Clan or Patriot. I can't remember which ones off the top of my head!
I agree with Brian that the choice of reusable or disposable patterns very much depends on the component, if the component is likely to be replaced in operation or can the pattern be used on another loco class/
As Gav mentions and Brian will very much agree with, pattern storage can be a problem. Not only due to the sheer size of some patterns but also the fact that they need to be kept in dry conditions and without the likelihood of other heavier patterns or components being put on top of them. Essentially a 40' container (or two) would be required for a large loco and even then you would need a driving wheel pattern that can either be 'split' in two or segmented. I see some driving wheel patterns are now broken down to two reusable parts, the crank pin section and a repeatable spoke section saving on pattern material and storage although is this saving negated by the additional labour cost at the foundry and risk that the pattern may not be repeated correctly? I assume that these patterns would also only work with counter weights that are riveted in rather than cast in.