BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Any deviation for any component requires a paper trail and sufficient proof that the deviation meets the correct standards. We are already regularly consulting with our CB and ensuring that we have every relevant certificate and material spec for every component that is safety critical. Our paper trails also include copies of manufacturing specs, coded welder certificates, Quality assurance and non-conformance documentation.
A mountain of paperwork is only a problem when you can't find the relevant piece of paper to show to the relevant person at the relevant time!

 

fantastic news guys. i do hope to see this making great strides this year.

standard tank im also slightly confused, you asked where they will keep the paperwork, but is what you really mean how will they deal with all the extra hassel of it?

if you do redesign the boiler then im presuming that youll have to use germany for your boiler as none of the bolier smiths in the uk can sign off a redesign. which is to me a bit of a dissapointment. not because of national pride or any critizm of tornados boiler but because of the fact that (to me anyway) the uk preservation scene doesnt benefit. with 82045's boiler to be done at svr and 45551 done at crewe this gives young apprentices a real chance to learn and keep the skills in the uk.

apart from that well done and keep going!!

 

Correct, Gav.

 

Thanks Gav. and Standard, i see where you are coming from.

It would be nice to think that that the momentum of the Clan Project will continue to pick up, even so the boiler is a good many years away. In those few years i can't see the stature of UK 'boiler smithing' declining and perhaps the UK options open to Clan will be 'enhanced' by then.
In the meantime the options can at least be thought through - potential scenarios being - perhaps
UK built to Original BR Drawings - and if the spec is sufficiently over engineered running to whatever higher psi is allowed by contemporary rules
or
German built - outer to BR size/spec with steel firebox stayed and sized to their parameters. with any re design certifications supplied by them a ' la tornado. any increase in PSI allowed as per their recommendations...?

I cant see any radical change in boiler dimensions and specs being of more worth than trouble/ expense, but a little extra Psi might be a useful gimme to offset the effects of other 'tweaks' such as reduced clearance volumes.

The Clan people I think are now looking beyond the ' Lets build one to show that they we're n't half bad after all' to the bigger picture of 'what we build it has to be as powerful/efficient/reliable a Clan its feasible to be to maximise its usefulness. Tweaks along the lines of what a trip to Rugby might have come up with but not limited by 1950's methods in their execution. ( no BR caprotti ? - foiled again, curses)

This twaddle about a Brit boiler instead is sad. Why build a big heavy underpowered boiler when we can use a smaller lighter one and get proportionately more steam out of it ?
No one suggests the Patriot is pointless when the major difference between it and a Jube is its Boiler, or that it should be built with a Royal Scot Boiler cos its betterer...

 

All this fantastic news and discussion is really encouraging to those of us who wish to see this project succeed. I do hope the finances can keep pace with all the design, examination, manufacture, inspection and assembly that is entailed.
Anyone out there with any spare cash they would care to pass on to see this completed locomotive?
Could be worth a flutter on the old lotto perhaps.

 

Locomotive boilers were exempt from British Standards on the grounds that they did not comply with the standards which applied to land boilers. It would be best to design and build to a modern standard, after all it will not be visible under the cladding. If steam had continued boiler making would have changed. The costly, established methods would have been replaced. In other fields boiler design changed. Rivets and pressings vanished and the newer, simpler designs could be constructed at a mere fraction of the cost of the older types. Locomotive working pressures are rather low in boiler terms so the introduction of the new should not be viewed with suspicion. Bearing in mind the 3801 experience I would be tempted to canvas closer to home.

 

Im not disagreeing with you 242a1 - if you have any ideas on this send them them to the 72010 group, directly or via the 5AT
But Didn't the A1slt set out on that road ( closer to home) and draw a blank ?
Didn't the 3801 group turn down an offer from Mitsubishi ( not really close to home) in favour of the 'Trad ( meiningen)' option ?

 

Whether the new boilers for 82045 and 45551 are built to the existing design, or not, I'm fairly certain that they won't have any grandfather rights because they are new build and not overhauls/repairs. They will therefore have to go through the same paperwork hurdle as a new build all-welded piece of kit to comply with the Pressure Equipment Regulations. In some respects it will be even harder because there's no reference design standard for a riveted boiler, unlike a welded one (BS2790). I also think that you're wrong to state that there is no UK notified (certifying) body. I've had new boilers certified by Lloyds and I know that R&SA also certify new boilers. I think Bureau Veritas and TUV are also suitable notified bodies.

 

royal sun alliance is the insurance co for our boiler in 45551. and yes we can use the original design which we have the paperwork for that states it is fully signed off. BUT if we wanted to change the design of the boiler to a fully welded steel box and re design the firebox (aka tornado) then we wouldnt be able to use the existing kyte or kite (its spelt one of those ways) mark and as it stands there isnt anywhere in the uk that can currently issue a kyte mark. if this is to change then 72010 could have a uk built boiler but if it isnt and they do re design then it will have to go to a location other than the uk.

And on that note if what i was told at the same time , tornados boiler would have to go back to germany ever 10 years to be re certified (but that part im not sure if i was listening correctly)

 

just to also point out that the insurance co's can certify the boiler but its the manufacturer that cant build it as its them who cant kyte mark it.

 

It isn't a question of kite mark,;it needs to be CE marked. As I said, both Lloyds & R&SA can and have done this to new build boilers since the Regs came into being.

 

This is a fascinating development and one that I applaud. How far to go is I guess the principle question for debate. Personally I wouldn't be in favour of anything that significantly changes the appearance of the loco as the Clan was one of the best looking of all engines. I would want the loco to keep the unique British loco aesthetic and not become one that looks more European with all sorts of ugly appendanges hanging off the boiler and chassis.

I will be following this with interest.

 

Think im with you there Pesmo but the only changes if ever heard mentioned regarding exterior are Chimney Height (to get below 13ft), and perhaps shape ? ( if a double is considered), Oval buffers? and of course Tender which, outwardly will be a BR1D but with the coal/water capacities tweaked. - 1.2 tonnes per 1000 gallons seems to be the optimum ratio....

 

New update on the website, hornguides being welded into Frames - with no shortage of care and consideration being exercised this time...

 

You beat me too it Sean! Thanks
Yes great care and attention being exhibited at Arthur Stephenson Engineering. We're in good hands!

 

So much progress this week!
The last combined frame stretcher / spring hangar has been cast and delivered to our Midlands base...

The first components have been sent for machining and include the rear 'Bread Tray' stretcher / brake cylinder support, feet for trailing frame keeps and bogie bolsters.

The first frame plate is due to be machined with the horn guides in situ. The second frame plate is having the horn guides welded in (this takes 2 days for balanced welding).

It's a great time to Join the Clan!

 

Some seriously big f*ck-off bits of metal coming together now - excellent.

Any news on Mr Rileys search for a new home... ?

 

Crewe HC is free.... imagine rileys on one end of crewe station and hoskings at the other!!! ohh now that would put crewe back on the map!

great to see this sort of progress for the project. after all the stick you bave received over the years it must be great to see things going in the direction the current board wants to see.

 

Thanks Gav and Sean. This is a very exciting time indeed on all fronts.
Members can expect an interim newsletter in the post shortly or if you send us your email address we will email the newsletter to you (members only so please state membership number). General press releases to follow.

 

An anonymous doner is funding cylinders and running gear as long as its caprotti ?