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BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. Lingus

    Lingus New Member

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    Even more questionable if you consider the S15 was stopped through non-compliance because of its lack of smoke deflectors. (One worry already eliminated by the Patriot people).
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It was?
     
  3. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    So who specifies what heat treatment for these fabrications?

    Have 'the authorities' passed this method of construction, what are the advantages, price and time I expect, and drawbacks, no pattern for future use?

    Is a fabrication more resistant to the effects of cooling and heating that have wrecked so many cylinders this last 12 months etc, this must be a factor to consider?
     
  4. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Can you expand (bad choice of word) on this a bit - it seems to have passed me by. I know there have been a few failures, but I wasn't aware of all the individual causes. I assumed most were down to 'hydraulicing'?
     
  5. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I think you should be very careful before posting rubbish of this nature - but, I seem to recall from past posts that you seem to have a problem with the NYMR, so perhaps this is why you state what can only be rumour as fact.

    825 ran for a few weeks at the start of the 2010 daily service, with smoke deflectors and including running to Whitby. It was stopped with a firebox problem that meant the boiler had to be lifted. The Loco is owner maintained by the Essex Locomotive Society, who lifted and repaired the boiler and got the loco back into traffic by August (from memory). However, during the period out of service, the 7th Anniversary of the boiler ticket being granted passed and hence the loco was no longer eligible for mainline operation. It returned to traffic without smoke deflectors but never tried to run on the mainline in this condition. Hence, you "statement" is complete rubbish.

    We seem to be getting similar elements of "that isn't how they used to do it" on fabricated cylinders as we are on Tornados all steel (and German built) boiler. I can assure you that the engineers at Grosmont and the extremely experienced independant consultant who does the NYMR's approvals will be across the issues causing concern here.

    Steven
     
  6. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Quite so, if the intention had been to build only a dozen 9f's than a fabricated or even cast 'spacer' piece would have been practicable, but for hundreds then a new pattern makes sense.

    What intrigues me is why a 20 inch cylinder was considered 'too big' for the proposed 2-8-2 but allowed for the 9f and then having to be spaced wider to avoid fouling the motion and pitched higher(to avoid fouling platforms...).

    Brilliant.... !
     
  7. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    Wish the Hengist team all the best & a happy new year, one of a couple of the more interesting new builds.
     
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Here here, BR Standards dont light everyones fire, and the Clans we're a bit of an 'inbetweeny' sort of engine. but as a project i think that Hengist gives more than just a useful new engine to UK Steam Railways...
     
  9. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Sheff, you asked 'Can you expand (bad choice of word) on this a bit - it seems to have passed me by. I know there have been a few failures, but I wasn't aware of all the individual causes. I assumed most were down to 'hydraulicing'?'
    All I dare say is that I am advised that several engines have suffered cylinder failure/fracture this last year. one example being the K1 which had just been passed 'Fit to Work' before the cylinder leak was found.
    Most of the crews nowadays are, I imagine, too experienced with their steeds to suffer the trauma of hydraulic ramming, however, the expansion and cooling effects of intermittent work reek a drastic toll on boilers, cylinders and possibly any other heat/steam pressure parts of the locomotive, see the Tornado saga as a possible example.
    The various usages of steam heating boilers before fires are lit, examinations while boilers are hot etc. etc. are all means by which the old school kept their workhorses fit for action.
    Either an answer needs to be found, and quickly, or owners are going to require several thousands in the bank to allow them to carry out such repairs whenever they are needed, which could be more than 1-2 each season.
    This is,of course, just my humble and uninformed conjecture and could be a load of rubbish.
     
  10. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Yes Steve, we are getting similarities between cylinders and Tornado's boiler. I believe that they are relevant on this site because we are building a new engine in Hengist, we have the choice of which way to go with the construction and can learn from the current situation. Does a steel all welded boiler need to have compensation built in for thermal effects, other than we knew of already that is, for example. Is a fabricated cylinder better than cast for thermal effects etc. Probably every steam engineer has their own opinions, perhaps it would be good to have seperate thread where all these issues could be discussed.
     
  11. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Another reason for cylinder end failure in recent time has been the loosening of core plugs in the piston heads IIRC.
     
  12. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    OK Sheff, and is that attributable to the heating and cooling cycles of intermittent usage??
     
  13. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well that would be a factor you would think. Have a look at this thread CLICK
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I can only think of 6201 in recent times. Which others?

    From memory, the following have suffered cylinder damage requiring repairs for various reasons:
    6201
    75014
    73096
    61264
    45231
    46115
    and 49395 from BR days
    Probably not exhaustive, by any means. Others have had cylinder problems for other reasons; i.e. 34027, 53808, 45407 & 76079. Again, not exhaustive.
     
  15. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    deleted
     
  16. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    48773 suffered a blown off end cover that was attributed to a core plug - there a thread on it on the SVR forum.

    73096 was definitely said to be down to an errant core plug at the time.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    At the time. Let's not bring this back up, though.
     
  18. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    'Sheff said;Well that would be a factor you would think.'
    Yes indeed, you may well think, apart from the general wear and tear usage over many years of course. I wonder what modern engineering technique can be used to eradicate that weakness?

    Steve, is that list of failures just this 2010 year? ( you missed 62005, the K1!!)

    Oh dear, I am starting to agree that this thread is digressing too long on this topic, sorry folk.
    Hopefully we will have some more news about 'Hengist' shortly to get us back on topic.
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    No, just ones I could think of over the last few years. And yes, I had forgotten about the K1. No doubt there are others.
     
  20. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    You had me worried for a while there!!!
    In that case I can add more to your list but won't.
    It all helps to show an apparent 'problem' in the industry, IMHO.
     

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