BR Standard class - practice and performance

I remember reading that the final LMS black 5s to fitted with caprotti were considered superior to the standard 5 versions. The double chimneys may have helped as some have said that the draughting on the standards weren't quite up to the job with caprotti.

 

DoG was not considered a success when built. That is factual. The machine has proven its worth in preservation.

As a whole no, But its Cylinders and valve gear in isolation were ( E.S.Cox)

The Caprotti 5MTs were considered good machines but were not sufficiently superior to the standard piston valve machines to warrant any further building.

No further orders were placed so that is a fait accompli, not a reasoning in itself. If you've ever heard a Caprotti 5 opened up you might wonder why they didn't have double chimneys... co incidently one of the last things off the drawing boards at BR was a double chimney for a class 5... ( Talbot)


There is not, as far as I am aware, any evidence at all for a Caprotti 9F on the board in any way, shape or form.
Associated locomotive equipment ( the suppliers of British caprotti gear) were asked to quote for caprotti gear on a batch of 9F's ( 20. iirc, Langridge )

Happy to be corrected.

One side profile of the proposed A4 in the early 1930s includes P2 style cladding and lentz gear - this was dropped entirely and no further lentz gear locomotives were considered by Gresley for building, after Cock O' The North's rebuilding into a piston valve machine. Born out by the D49s turned out with conjugated gear and outside walschaerts valve gear.

There were difficulties obtaining spares for the Lentz fitted D49s during WW2 and this is why the sole D class 4-4-0 The Morpeth was rebuilt into a conventional two cylinder 4-4-0 with long lap travel valves and D11 inside cylinders and valve gear.

I do not believe Thompson was ever of the opinion that there were any advantages to the use of lentz gear over piston valves and walschaerts valve gear, whether under Gresley or as CME.

He had class B12/3 converted to piston valve from lentz gear when head of Stratford works and I rather suspect we could all agree that this was an unmitigated success for him and Gresley.

Missed the Point and ran two train lengths past it...

 

Yes, indeed, a set of drawings was produced by Doncaster Drawing office in 1958. Mind you, they liked to draw double chimneys. A set for a double chimney on the Standard 4 2-6-4 tanks had been done six months earlier.

 

Were the Brits ever considered for double chimneys?

 

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Interesting! Had no idea about the 9Fs. Where can I find more info?

 

Surely the whole thing with the Clans was that whilst they were not spectacular, they were competent, reliable, capable economical machines. Yes, there's scope to improve their draughting, but they did the job they were built to do, and were liked by crews and shed masters. The fact that they did their job so well and without fuss is part of why none were preserved.

 

I never met anyone that had a good word to say for them .

 

Don't stir Mr Ward up again ,we had enough of him in the 1980s.A couple of his predictions were ,the only steam left on the main line in the year 2000 would be on the Fort William Mallaig line. The steam dinner trains from Marylebone to Stratford wouldn't pay, one reason was bringing in empty stock from Tysley each weekend. When they did start they were one of the most successful trains operated by BR Inter City special unit. They ran for years and years.

 

Any engine's that worked Manchester to Glasgow trains throughout, successfully, and with out fuss were okay by me.One could be seen on 26A Newton Heath, Manchester most days.

 

I rather think that's what they were supposed to do, so no real accolades for simply doing their job. For that matter, so did the Stanier 5Xs.

 

Agreed Knut, I will resist the temptation to perpetuate and elaborate upon the comparison between the two Tornados, or defend the Clan class here...

Apologies but I can't remember the source but Probably under 10 CMEs part 2 (Langridge) or it could have been 'Life and times of a duke' (McGinty), or even London Midland locomotives' (Powell) as these are the last things I remember reading....

 

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I believe the Clans came about following the impressive work of the SR ...BB/WC in the 1948 exchanges . it probably seemed like a good idea at the time


while I like the Brits - more from an aesthetic point of view than much else , I don't think they were a great loco.
figures posted earlier may suggest otherwise , but a loco with a decent boiler and cylinders plus a large firegrate that is fed 5600 lb coal p/h is gonna produce a bit of power .
a Scot would likely equal that if given enough to eat . so could the Southern light pacifics.
the BRB wanted their new engine to outperform every other design on the system and it did not succeed in that .
I seriously doubt if any other uk engine has ever been fired at that rate . even with a skilled crew a Brit would struggle to approach 2000 DBHP in normal service . other designs achieved that as a matter of routine

 

Other class 7's ?

 

Ooh ..... fighting talk! After the preservation era transformation of Riddles' DoG, I wonder what'll go well with humble pie?

Assuming we both survive to see Hengist in steam, it'll be interesting to see which (if either) view of the 'Clans' comes closer to the mark.

 

like what ??

WC/BB & Scots are class 7 I cant think of any others that could give 2000 IDHP . maybe an A3 with a A 3 boiler . the A4 boiler locos would not be a fair comparison.

Castles , V2 , LN ? I don't think so

 

the preservation era success of 71000 should not have been needed . she was not built as per the drawings . she could have performed straight out of the box
ashpan ? I dunno , but Kylchap was specified but not fitted

clotted cream with my pie please.

I still reckon a rebuilt WC would come out on top . where is Bert Hooker when you need him ?

 

Exactly, So Why would a Brit 7 be derided for a 2000 dbhp ceiling ?

Quite agree, as did the Brits. you've only to look at the frame set up to see the ideas borrowed from WC/bb's, even if they did borrow ideas less suited to a two cylinder loco. and pass up using the superb boiler, innovative wheels, sprung trailing truck etc... and a Clan would never be a match for a WC/ BB...but a Brit should be.