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Bridge that Gap: Great Central Railway News

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Gav106, May 8, 2010.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's the point; those plans either haven't yet been made or, if they have, aren't published.
     
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  2. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    I think that there are many people involved, both North and South, who are considering these aspects. There is a lot of liaison between the two organisations and always has been. As I have said before, there are many people who are active members of both. Yes sometimes there are "Spats" and not everybody agrees with every detail......but the vast majority - the silent and the vocal, are working towards a reunified GCR. The new book "Reunification" plus the Main Line magazine gives lots of information but I'm sure there will be an enhanced integrated service on the GCR both now and in the future. Lets get it built!
     
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  3. NBDR Lock

    NBDR Lock New Member

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    There's nothing new about the idea of shared stations, all that's needed are robust operational and financial agreements between the organisations involved. I'm with Flying Phil, let's get it built!
     
  4. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    I really don't see why there is all this speculation about "sharing" and "allocating costs/profits". Once the bridging is complete surely the two branches of the railway will merge to become one and there will be none of these issues ? Wasn't it set up this way in the first place , and why would any members of either branch object to merging?
     
  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Over 20 years of separate existence, with different cultures in the organisations?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    But, for the majority in both organisations ........A shared vision!
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Hopefully. But I remain to be convinced whether this will manifest as merger or partnership.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    A shared station on a heritage railway is a completely new idea and there are no precedents or processes to adhere to like on the big railway. The nearest we have is the FR/WHR and WHHR and they haven't got anywhere in terms of a regular service so I'm not convinced it will be as smooth as some people think. However, these are all issues for the future and will no doubt be considered in due course.
     
  9. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    That would certainly be the best and simplest solution for all concerned.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That would be the best solution. However, I don't think it will be that easy. I've said before that the GCR (S) needs the GCR(N) to fulfil its dream of a main line connection. On the other hand, the GCR(N) does not really need the GCR(S) and holds a good hand of cards. You will end up with one board/organisation so only one chairman and all other officers. People are going to end up pushed out and being disgruntled, just as happens in any merger of two organisations. I can foresee it becoming another WSR plc v WSRA saga with one organisation seeking to control the other. I hope that I'm wrong but only time will tell whether I am or not.
     
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  11. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    We cannot know all the factors affecting this evolution of the GCR. There will have been many discussions over many years with many people. However Both organisations (GCR PLC and GCR(N) PLC) and Both supporters charities (DCRT,EMRT) are helping to achieve this shared vision.
    Obviously many hundreds, if not thousands of people, have, and are continuing to, put their hands in their pockets to fund the project - to achieve that dream of Reunification. There will be more difficulties along the way, it will not always be a smooth evolution. Some people, sometimes, may not get all that they want. But many , many people want to ride a train across that Gap......and to achieve that dream of steam trains on a preserved Main Line from Leicester (N) to Nottingham(S).
    ......... Lets get it done.
     
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  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    At the moment we are looking at a Hypothetical situation of what’s going to happen, I would be surprised though if there weren’t regular meetings between various people at various levels about what the future holds. As you say let’s get it built first before we froth over ifs, buts and maybes.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Sorry but you need to froth over the ifs buts and maybes first. If there isn’t a binding agreement in place first it is pointless bridging the gap. It will simply be a bridge too far.
    I just hope that there is an agreement already.
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Just tuned in to the debate on here and this 'line of two halves' discussion that seems to be primarily around two separate (but interconnected) organisations for the future Railway. I have to say that as a member of the public who will wish to travel (again) on the line one day it's a detail that I'm not interested in or actually will notice as my train steams north. There are times when you need to take it on trust that things are the way they are for a reason and that reason is a sensible one that will not get in the way of what enthusiasts and the wider public would hope will happen.

    I know that it's possible to look elsewhere in the heritage sector - and there is an obvious one in the south west - to see all manner of difficulty because of the way that things are organised but also, more importantly, the way that the systems work and interconnect at the hands of the people involved. Why anyone might think that there is a potential difficulty on the GCR is really rather bemusing and comes across as totally unhelpful and for no good reason.
     
  15. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    No other heritage site has split entry for different owners - disproved
    nobody catches the train half-way - disproved
    you can't have two railway operators in one station - disproved
    you can't have two heritage railways in one station - disproved

    now we've got "the big railway precedents aren't precedents" - eh? every operational move that heritage railways do come from big railway precedents (in the past, agreed, but why I said dust off the RCH handbooks - railways had joint operations, revenue sharing etc in the past that we are apparently trying to recreate)

    And people who don't volunteer saying that they remain to be satisfied that organisations will work together, when people who do volunteer are saying it's happening

    It's like there's a continued search for reasons it can't work.
     
  16. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I dip into this thread from time to time, but I don't remember seeing any posts saying what discussions are going on to clarify what's going to happen after the railways are joined up.
     
  17. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that, over the past few months, virtually all management time has been spent coping with the C-19 crisis/finishing the canal bridge/replacing a bridge North of Quorn/dealing with ORR inspections/designing factory flyover section/restarting operations/Santa specials etc etc.....
    I think it is safe to say that - after the railways are joined up, there will be trains running to the South and trains running to the North which the public can pay to ride on.
     
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  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    As an armchair member of FoGCML, the information I get in Main Line suggests that conversations have happened, are happening, and will happen, but that there's an order of events that requires a physical link before the other aspects take place.

    However, what I also observe is that there are two distinct organisations, that have formed their own cultures, ways of working, etc., and that merging organisations is not straightforward.

    I therefore take the view that it will be a challenge, not guaranteed to be successful, but one that is eminently doable.
     
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  19. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    I'm sorry if it comes across that way - that isn't my intention. There's every reason to believe that a unified GCR can, and will work. I was only taking issue with the specific suggestion that GCR(N) and GCR(S) could continue as two essentially separate operations whilst using one station. I believe that it isn't a sensible idea, and I say that based on more than a decade of voluntary and professional experience working in visitor-facing roles at heritage railways and historic houses. I felt I would actually be doing the GCR a disservice if I didn't point out the potential flaws in this idea, and so allow it to gain traction, and potentially to actually be adopted.

    You've cited various examples which you say "disprove" my arguments. My short answer is that I don't believe any of the examples you have cited are directly comparable, but I really can't be bothered to get bogged down in a detailed discussion about them. The key point that I am trying to make is this: the simpler you can keep you arrangements, the happier your customers will be. The happier you customers are, the better it will be for your business in the long run. Please, just take my word for that. If you'd dealt with as many complaints as I have, from grumpy customers who didn't understand the opening arrangements, then you would see my point of view.

    At the very least, if the GCR(N) and GCR(S) are to remain separate, then they must find a way to run through trains and offer completely integrated ticketing, so that the customer, to all intents and purposes, experiences the railway as a unified whole, and hopefully doesn't even realise that there are two separate organisations behind the scenes. If the two sides can agree on some system to split the revenue between them, then that might just work. But I still reckon it will be far better for all concerned if the two organisations merge and run the railway as a single entity right from the start. And really, there's no earthly reason why that should be a problem - the only thing that could possibly cause a problem would be personality politics. I'm not going to speculate on how likely, or otherwise, that may be. All I can say is that I've never yet seen anything to suggest that either GCR organisation is not run professionally or competently - so I would hope that, when the time comes, the common-sense solution will prevail.
     
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  20. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Steve, I agree with you that there must be an agreement in place between the two railways in the first place. It’d be bloody silly not to.
    The ifs, buts and maybes I’m on about are some people who are how do I put this? Maybe overthinking things but without any idea of what’s going on in the background behind closed doors?
    For those of us not connected to either railway how do we know there’s not an agreement already but it hasn’t been publicised yet?
     
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