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Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    now that is one engine that i would love to see in steam, but to do so would mean renewing 90 percent of the engine, the problem is though, you have to look at the suitability of wnat engines to restore, to match what your requirements are, theres no point in restoring say Stepney or Fenchurch, if you can only use them in off season, its not cost effective either to be roistering extra crews and steaming more engines than you need, because you have to double head even your lightest trains because loadings have increased beyond the capability of say a p class or Terrier, so you need larger engines, or do you run shorter trains , and turn people away? , im not saying that Fenchurch etc sholdnt be restored, but that you have to ensure you have the right motive power to match your needs, bearing in mind its not now a 5 mile railway, its now much longer, with a steeper gradient , and especially water is an issue, no point getting halfway to EG then finding out your out of water and you cant put an injector on :eek:
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    What's the haulage capability of the radial then, out of interest?
     
  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The effective limit of the H class is the equivalent of four Mark 1s or (potentially) five pre-grouping bogie carriages to East Grinstead; I suspect if the Adams was restored, it would probably have an effective limit of one coach less.

    Pictures of them in BR days seem to show a maximum load for a single engine of 3 or 4 coaches on the Lyme Regis Branch; the Saturday train (which was often five coaches) required double heading. The gradients are a bit steeper to Lyme Regis, but the locos were sixty years younger and BR always had a spare one in the shed ...

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    A T1 would be nice (or, even more interesting, an A12 which shared the same boiler) but I suspect if anyone is going to take the lead on such a project, it should really be one of the South Western Railways, our leanings being a bit more Brightonian!

    Tom
     
  5. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    During the Adams tank first spell on the Bluebell it was described in guidebooks as being economical with a couple of coaches, yet still able to take 5 if needed. That of course was before any extensions were in view, and there wasn't a mk1 in sight. I don't know what the extra mileage to East Grinstead would do to water consumption, and I get the impression that the Bluebell today is less likely to routinely work their locos to the limit. I once saw Birch Grove take 7 to Horsted Keynes (it's own train and the 2 coaches of the "relief train") on it's last train of the day, and I think that was a regular working. It was given a push the length of the platform at SP by Bluebell. I can't see that happening today!

    Steve B
     
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  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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  8. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Quote from that web page "The unusual eccentric crankpin on the driven wheels allows the throw of the coupling rods to be reduced (thereby reducing balancing needs and hammerblow to the track) whist accommodating the full stroke of the pistons."

    Hammer blow results from using balance weights on the wheels to provide (usually partial) balancing of reciprocating masses including those of the connecting rods, which have a mixture of rotational and reciprocating motion. In balancing out some of the fore-and-aft inertial forces, they introduce some up-and-down forces. But coupling rods have only rotational motion, so can be almost perfectly balanced by balance weights on the wheels. So reducing the throw of the coupling rods should make hardly any difference to hammer blow. Perhaps it was felt that a slight reduction of inertial forces of any kind was desirable. Did the Ivatt atlantics or any other locos share this feature?

    BTW, in the picture "where David Jones is seen showing visitors the door giving access to the oilbox beneath the running plate" the chap in a green shirt peering over the running plate is me.
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I did wonder a bit about that explanation...

    As for the stepped crankpins - AFAIK, the Ivatt Atlantics had 24" stroke pistons whereas Beachy Head's are 26". The suggestion made earlier was that the Ivatt engines had a similar arrangement which was reproduced (albeit with 1" extra longer throw) by Marsh.

    There is a bit of discussion here: http://railways.national-preservati...ll-ever-really-work.32387/page-10#post-438068

    (PS - nice to put a face to a name!)

    Tom
     
  10. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Quite a few locos had this feature, I think the LNWR and/or L&Y did it as well. As stated, nothing to do with balancing as the rotating masses would be 100% balanced by the weights and vice versa, but there was a theory that excessive sweep of the coupling rods imposed stresses on the crank pins, so this was done to reduce it.
     
  11. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick New Member

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    And of course Newhaven's H2s were regular performers over what is now the Bluebell, on weekday Lewes-London Bridge workings via EG.
     
  12. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    I wonder how much more has been done to the Atlantic since the last update in June this year?
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Steady progress, but the team doing the building tend to report in big chunks a few times per year, specifically when Bluebell News is published (4-yearly) or the supporters magazine (twice yearly, I think); and the website updates are often aligned to those deadlines.

    There's a new issue of Bluebell News due in about a month. When it comes out, I'll update here with the salient points.

    Tom
     
  14. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    I'll look forward to the next update instalment.
     
  15. Pesmo

    Pesmo New Member

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    Could you also use this adjustment on the crank pin to optimise piston travel, almost to the mm within the cylinder ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Latest issue of Atlantic News just landed on my doormat with a resounding thud. Following is a brief précis of progress. As always, not the official word, just some points that jumped out at me as interesting or notable. Some of this may be old news as it covers about the last six months.

    (*) Completion of splashers, which are now riveted to the running plates and painted

    (*) Piping up of the drain cocks. Seemingly like many things on the Atlantic, these are more elaborate than might be supposed. The actual cocks below the cylinders face backwards; the pipework immediately turns 180° to run forward, before turning underneath the engine to meet up with the drains from the valve chests to emerge in a single cluster below the centre of the bogie. Various lubrication runs are also now in place or being constructed.

    (*) Rivetting together of the major cab plates. For some while, the left-hand (driver's side) cab side has been placed in situ along with the support for the reverser. However, this has only been a temporary arrangement. To enable accurate final valve setting, the reverser mechanism needs to be securely in place on its pedestal, which in turn means fixing the cab in place properly. This work is in progress. Incidentally, in common with most other Brighton locos with a screw reverse, the mechanism is power-assisted using compressed air, in particular to assist movement from forward towards back gear. All the cab sheet components - sides, front, roof - are now available. Interestingly, the cab roof alone - which is a thin 3mm (originally 1/8") sheet, strengthened with various strips across the top and with angle irons to fix it to the sides - requires no fewer than 438 rivets to complete! The beading around the cab side sheet cut outs has had to be made by painstakingly welding together various simple sections of metal to build up the original T-section, rounded corner material: a hundred years ago that would have been available as a simple drawn steel section "off the shelf".

    (*) The outside cylinder end covers have been fabricated - a measure of 100 years of inflation is that these items alone were more expensive than the whole locomotive in 1910.

    (*) Some work has taken place on the boiler, including ultrasonic testing of around half the stays (more may well have been completed since). Encouragingly, not a single broken stay was found.

    The promised article on the brake test rig has been held over to the next magazine for want of space.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
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  17. m&gn50

    m&gn50 New Member

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    Be awfully nice to see this Great Northern loco in the correct shade of green at some point...
     
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  18. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I'm sure there are plenty of differences between the Ivatt and Marsh versions that would offend some people. So, instead, how about borrowing the refurbished boiler to put on the NRM's Ivatt atlantic?:D
     
  19. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    Here is a question, how many of the locomotives in the NRM are fit enough to be returned to service?
     
  20. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    On the one hand the only locos that are fit to go in service *as they are* are those currently in service, all others would need work to a greater or lesser extent..

    On the other hand you could put any of them into service if you were prepared to spend enough money, do enough work, discard enough of the current structure, sufficiently compromise originality and radically change policy.

    So I don't think its a question that really has an answer..
     

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