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Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't have an answer to your conundrum but I'm thinking about it. However, I'm a bit intrigued about the plan for the boiler and the cladding. As far as I can see, it had a hydraulic test in October 2019 but I can't find any mention of a steam test from the reports. Is this correct? Normally, the clock starts ticking from the date of the hydraulic test and the inspector also wants to see a steam test without cladding. These aren't cast in tablets of stone and depend on the written scheme. Has agreement been reached to do otherwise? Just curious?
     
  2. mikehartuk

    mikehartuk New Member

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    Tom & Steve. An interesting engineering conundrum.

    Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure the solution almost certainly involved common practice of getting hold of the smallest Brighton Works apprentice they could find and him being told to climb op in there laddie and do that cleading bolt up. His fitter boss down in the pit giving instruction and encouragement along the lines of stop being a wimp/when I was a lad stuff. And, after a while arrival of the works chargehand looking in at the job from the top getting ever more heated telling them both of they were doing it all wrong. Not sure a lot different than railway workshop life nowadays really!
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Are there other decent images showing that area? I'm wondering if the band was simply immediately ahead of the rear cut out, with the question merely being a matter of perspective?

    As tickled as I am by the suggestion of a design feature included to give an Edwardian apprentice a dreadful job, surely the initial build is scarcely the only time the cleading came off during half a century of work? ... or have we stumbled onto the real reason the originals went when they did?

    Does Beachy Head's Ivatt progenitor at the NRM give any clue?
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think it all comes down to people in the drawing office having no practical experience of working on engines, or if they did they had forgotten what they learnt. There are lots of examples of, ‘why did they do that’ in the world of steam. As an example, why on Midland and LMS engines was the blower valve placed above the firebox door so in the event of a blowback you would have to put your hand in the flames to get at it. I’ve been told that you had to be a midget or a contortionist to oil up the inside motion of a Stanier Pacific.
     
  5. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned one feature of this latest report, namely that no group is immune from making mistakes, even the best well run projects, admittedly not on anything like the same scale as the Patriot gaffes.
     
  6. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    The reason for the blower handle's position was that it was easily reached by the driver or fireman. It would be used by both during the course of a run, and quite frequently, whereas blowbacks were rare occurrences.

    I've never had to oil up the inside gear of a Lizzie so don't know how difficult it was. But there were only twelve of them, and of those 6205's inside valves were driven by rockers from the outside, as were those on the the 38 Big 'uns.
     
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  7. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    When I said Stanier Pacifics I should have said Lizzies. I got that story from an ex Camden fireman and later Willesden driver, Stan Fitton.
    As far as a the blower is concerned the Bulleid arrangement is much better, it’s operates from a shaft across the firebox backplate with a handle at each so it can be reached by driver or fireman from a seated position away from any flames.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    A bit more thought on the subject. It is common for the boiler barrel cladding sheets to overlap at the bottom and the boiler bands to be provided with a long screwed bolt at the bottom to tighten the band down and, in so doing, tighten the cladding sheets onto the crinolines on which they sit, in which case you need boiler bands that go the full circumference of the cladding sheets. It doesn't have to be done this way, though, and you can have cladding sheets that are an exact fit onto the crinolines and are screwed to them. It's a much neater and tidier arrangement but involves much more in the way of fitting. Then, the only purpose of the band is to cover the gap between the cladding sheets and make a neat and tidy job. This, too, can be screwed to the crinolines and no longer has to be the full circumference of the boiler so can stop where it meets the splashers. You probably still need a small apprentice to wriggle up into the motion to fasten the cladding sheets to the crinolines at the bottom of the barrel, though.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I would have thought oiling up a Lizzie would be fairly similar to oiling up a Castle. They have very similar waggly bits inside the frames.
     
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  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    You are correct that thus far no steam test has taken place, only a hydraulic test.

    My understanding (but I’m away from references and haven’t asked recently) is that the inspector is happy for the ticket to start from when the steam test is done, and for that to take place in the frames. Whether any cladding has to be removed for the test (especially around the firebox / foundation ring etc) I don’t know.

    Tom
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    (Deleted - duplicate)
     
  12. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Sort of. The Castles, of course, had their gear between the frames while the Lizzies had it both inside and outside. I believe 6201 rejoiced in the nickname, Corky Liz!
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There appears to be no standard with regard to what is done to give a boiler its 'ticket'. even the HRA guidance is fairly vague on the subject and i don't have my copy of HSG 29 to hand. Following a thorough inspection and any repairs carried out after overhaul my inspector requires a hydraulic test to 1.5 SWP with all cladding, etc, removed and out of the frames so everywhere is accessible. This followed by an out of frames steam test to prove the boiler at its working pressure. Once back in the frames and all re-assembled he requires an additional steam test to prove the functionality of all the fittings, etc. I've found this to be pretty normal in the past. However, I have heard recent comment from someone that his inspector did not want to be bothered with the out of frames steam test, being content with a steam test of the completed boiler in the frames with all fittings, etc attached. Once all is done we get 10 years from the hydraulic test and 14 months from the visual exam in accordance with the written scheme.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I was referring to oiling up between the frames, as originally commented on by Johnb although I did hang my response onto your quote.
     
  15. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    An old chap, who used to come up to Southport when we were doing 7298, had been a driver in the top link at Edge Hill and always referred to 6200 and 6201 as "Corky Lizzies" so the name must've been around for a while.
    Ray.
     
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  16. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    So did my did Stan Fitton my Willesden driver acquaintance.
     
  17. Hunslet589

    Hunslet589 New Member

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    By repute, the custom of using corks in an oil pot was brought to the LMS by Stanier as GW practice and first applied to the Princesses. So the name may well date back to their construction.
     
  18. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Which then begs the question, what did the LMS use before?
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Another question, resulting from the description of how they are going to lift the boiler. If you can't use normal slings with the cladding on, and you can't fit the cladding all the way round when the boiler is in the frames, how did they do it on the originals?
     
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  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    AIUI it’s not that you can’t add the cladding with the boiler in place; it is that you can’t easily do it with the splashers in place. So I think the answer is that the original sequence of construction would have been different - probably erect the frames and cylinders, add the boiler, then add the cladding, then add the running plate and splashers, and put it on its wheels last. Contemporary photos from Brighton would be interesting.

    Building such a loco in a large workshop with overhead cranes and all the parts to hand is a different proposition to building it essentially a bespoke artefact.

    Tom
     
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