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Brighton Belle update

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by 73129, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Southernman99

    Southernman99 New Member Friend

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    Pure, refined art deco. What more do you want other than sublime Pullman dining?
     
  2. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Maybe kippers for breakfast? :Caffeinefix:
     
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  3. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    And the ride should be much better on the new(er) bogies.
     
  4. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    A fascinating 30min walkthrough filmed back in February of the progress being made:

     
  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what this project has needed for a long time, now. A clear picture of how things stand, and and they are impressive. I remember that Holdsworth "Jazz" moquette as a small boy, before it got replaced with the ghastly blue Trojan, although memory recalls it as being entirely in shades of brown, unless the green had faded by then.
    Its going to be wonderful, even without the childish anticipation of wondering who would end up with soup in their lap, as the train racketed over the points at East Croydon!
     
  6. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    This restoration is looking amazing. Well done to all concerned.

    Shame about the vitriol being spat out elsewhere, though, because of the running gear being taken from what was seen be some to be another viable project. The fact is, though, that this 5-BEL restoration has more likelihood of being able to support itself once running than any conventional EMU set ever could, in my opinion.
     
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  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The standard of the work looks to have been of the highest standard and i'm sure will be in demand once it does enter service, looking at the work, its electronically a new build, judging by the new cabling to adapt the 27 way electrics so I would assume that at the same time safety gear has also had to be wired in, including central locking, its taken a long time, and at a cost of approx. 1 million per car, I just hope they have enough money to complete the first 4 cars, and finish the 5th
     
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  8. weltrol

    weltrol Member

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    Look at it this way: the number of EMU's that are sat, unloved, at railways around the UK gradually rusting away, or pillaged by 'metal fairies' to render them unrestorable, is growing all the time. The 4-Cigs were available at cheap prices ( I believe), to anyone that wanted one. Some railways took a set without realising that they needed a lot of siding space in one go, then the brakes issue arose. Air only. Not many railways have suitable traction (33/1 ,73 or 419) for push-pull operation. Some railways have taken the plunge and modified their EMU coaches to vacuum brakes. Others have been vac piped and run as a sandwich. The Brighton Belle Trust have taken suitable 'donor' units for their power and control gear, as well as better bogies, to make this iconic unit fit for purpose. This is just the same as Didcot and others scavenging from restorable hulks to create their 'lost' classes (29xx, 47xx, 9351, Baby Deltic, NER Railcar and 10000 come to mind....) and the growing number of derelict coach bodies being grafted onto PMV or similar chassis.
    Well done ( so far...) to the Belle people. It goes to show that preservation is still ongoing.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Two years ago I said
    Having now watched the video I am (of course) most impressed by both the quality and quantity of work being done, but my mixed feelings remain. I am wondering whether now to quote that exchange of emails from four years ago.
     
  10. Britfoamer

    Britfoamer Member

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    I'm looking forward to eating on it with a run from Chester to Liverpool and Southport one day, probably not a too far fetched idea? :D
     
  11. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'd be interested to see it get clearance from Hamilton Square to Central now, let alone on Merseyrail as a whole with the changes being made to platforms to allow level access to the new trains.
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Aside from possible areas of operation, will the unit be allowed run on 3rd rail routes under its own power, even though it's clearly being worked on as a fully operationally unit, might GB RF decide it needs to be topped and tailed by its 73's ?
     
  13. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Well yes - otherwise there would have been no point in fitting the more modern running gear and all the required electronics to the stock. There should be no need for anything else to be attached whilst it's running on the 3rd rail system.
     
  14. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    I expect the running gear of the 73s is older than that of the 4CIG units used in the reconstruction of the Belle
     
  15. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott New Member

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    Seeing the amount of work they've had to do, I was half-inclined to wonder whether it would have been easier to build from scratch - or reduce the donor CIGs to their underframes and build new Pullman bodies on them, Networker Classic style.
     
  16. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    I can't see that being anything but much harder especially as it's the fit out - the interiors and especially the electrics - which appears to have caused the bulk of the problems, whereas restoring the bodies with new bogies is relatively straightforward engineering previously achieved with the 5BEL vehicles in the British Pullman.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
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  17. burmister

    burmister Member

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    I have seen pictures with sections of CIG underframes cut and welded into the original 1930s frames where the CIG centre castings now are. Interesting mix of frame profile but done presumably because of clearance issues - still the VAB must be happy with this.
    If just one CIG unit power plant has been used to replace the original powered bogie at each end ( like a CEP/BEP) then only a nominal 1,000 hp is installed for a train considerable heavier than the CIG units. These had a balancing speed of around 70 mph on level and under 60 up 1 in 100 with acceleration of just 0.5mph per second to 50mph so will be a lot slower with Pullman bodies. You do wonder where the paths will come from on todays main lines with power/speed profiles like that. I stood at TB on Wednesday waiting for a Chichester service, the Thameslink was replatformed from 4 to 3, a Gatwick shot past on 4, the Thameslink then departed 3 to rejoin the up fast, meanwhile 3 up trains called on the slow at Platforms 1 and 2 and two went south on the down fast all within 10 mins. Would not be at all surprised if a 73/1 is put on the front/rear of the unit when it finally appears.
     
  18. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    There will be four powered bogies so plenty of power - as you rightly point out two simply wouldn't be sufficient.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  19. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    The GIG's power to weight ration was the same as all the Southern units of the same period = except the REP's & in my experience all were evil quick
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    the Reps were designed to power at speed an additional 2X 4 TC units don't forget ,on the occations when they worked with a single TC then they did have a lot of horses in reserve and did go like the clappers ,
     

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