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Britannia to Shrewsbury 23 November

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by alastair, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Well done to SD for getting a replacement loco and for updating their site quickly. It's also good news that the train will still start from Waterloo with steam although, as has been said, by the time we get to Shrewsbury there may not be much time left to service and turn the loco for the return. We shall just have to see what they do. A slight concern is that although the DL was going to be dragged to Salisbury before it's detached, that may now change given possible issues at the destination.
     
  2. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    Bad news, chaps. I've heard from a different source that 70000 will have a DL pilot all the way back from Shrewsbury. This is because there is insufficient servicing time at Shrewsbury for the Brit (25 mins, according to UKsteam.info, even if everthing runs to time). I'm not sure of the differences, but we've heard on previous occasions that Tornado is quicker to service than the older locos. As normal, I don't know how reliable this source is, nor whether it's the final decision or just the currently most-likely plan, but it came from a different place than my previous post.
     
  3. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    That's the trouble with making paths with 60163 in mind, no other loco has it's 6000 gallon range short of using a second tender or water carrier, and even then, how many loco's have the relevant connections to use them like 4464 and 5043 ?.
     
  4. alastair

    alastair Member

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    that's very disappointing but not surprising. If this is true,I just wonder how the DL will get to Shrewsbury. Stay on the back all the way from London?....NO please not!
     
  5. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    By the sound of it, the water range is not the main worry in this case. Looking at the times of other passenger trains, there's enough slack in the schedule that they could include an extra water stop in either direction if necessary, assuming either a good hydrant is nearby or Bells & Two-Tones can get a tanker close enough.

    Incidently, that's a part of the mainline steam scene we so often overlook: the folks who supply the water. It's a sort of a compliment really - they are normally so reliable we take them for granted.

    Which reminds me - wasn't there an occassion, many years ago, when 6233 was filled with hot water from a road tanker, and her injectors wouldn't work as a result? (Not B&TT that time!)
     
  6. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Yes happened at Hull I recall reading in one of the mags.

    I assumed it was having to slip in an extra water stop that was accounting for the lack of time at Salop.
     
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    DBS has other depots up north to provide a pilot if that's what is going to happen. This, of course, is the major downside of not having DBS on steam any more (except Sat). If you need a DL then you have to take it with you as per West Coast practice.
     
  8. malc

    malc Member

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    So why are we scheduled to take a DBS diesel on the back of the train to Salisbury when there are usually a number of them stabled at Westbury, much nearer Bristol? (To be honest, I doubt whether there would be any ETH-fitted Class 67s at Westbury, but the fact still remains that we are scheduled to take the DBS diesel with us to Salisbury "as per West Coast practice").

    in contrast, I was recently on the West Coast operated Pembroke Coast Express where we played leapfrog with the Class 47 which was running light engine from Bristol to Carmarthen to work the train from there to Pembroke Dock (or Tenby as it turned out, but that's another issue!)

    It's all speculation what would have happened had Saturday's train been West Coast operated, but Carnforth is closer to Shrewsbury than Southall.

    EDIT. There's a light engine movement from Bescot to Coton Hill on RTT now, so it looks like Steamage's contacts were right and we are going to be diesel piloted back south, but won't have a diesel with us northbound. (I still stand by my arguments above though)
     
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So it just shows that they do try to do the right thing and consider the passengers wishes.
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you've answered your own question about Saturday. I believe they need a Cl67 at Bristol (for ETH for the return) so sending it down there having brought the train in to Wloo makes sense. A Cl66 from Westbury won't do. I also believe that it may be crewless from London to Salis that will actually make for a rather heavy train for Britannia to haul. Overall this all seems like a pretty sensible compromise solution from all concerned.
     
  11. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a misconception that because DBS has a number of depots and a lot of loco's, that they are sat idle and not allocated to other work or an exam, repairs etc, plus a spare driver who's trained on class 1 passenger work.

    Also as mentioned DBS have very few ETH fitted Diesels. basically amouting to the class 67's, the vast majority of which are already spoken for by Chiltern, Scotrail and East Coast Thunderbird work, theoretically, WCRC probably has more ETH diesels available for charters than DBS.
     
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  12. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    I wonder if the Brit will manage that heavy load, with the Woking stop and presumably some checks to cross to/from the slow line etc, without a water stop before Salisbury?

    Or will it need diesel assistance?
     
  13. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    Final timings now available thanks to uksteam. They are within a gnat's whisker of the schedule for Tornado.
    http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1123a.htm
    Possibly water at Salisbury on the outward and later at Magor in each direction. <BJ>
     
  14. alastair

    alastair Member

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  15. malc

    malc Member

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    There are six minutes at Hereford - just about enough time for a quick "splash and dash" from Bells & Two Tones. Probably no need for an adidtional water stop on the return if there's going to be a diesel on the front.
     
  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Steam Dreams sent me this yesterday:

    The 67 will come off at Salisbury outbound and then 70000 will run unassisted from Salisbury to Shrewsbury, however on the return a 66 will assist to Bristol and then both replaced by the 67 back to London.
    Kind Regards
    Steam dreams
     
  17. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    Assisting from the front ? The inside ? Or the back ?
     
  18. Wayne

    Wayne Member

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    According to the charter notice, a class 66 is to pilot Britannia from Shrewsbury to Bristol.
    And just to confirm the 67 will be not be crewed from Waterloo to Salisbury.
    It will be detached there and travel to Bristol later in the day (1744).
     
  19. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Might have a few minutes to play with at Hereford with smart running from Llanvihangel as next train out of Hereford is the Manchester at 1358.
     
  20. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    I'd be getting a refund then !!
     

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