Buxton Spa Express 7th May: now 17th September

Quite so. Did Derby - Sheffield - Manchester with her back in the 90s. The sound was superb throughout the tour and the climb of Dronfield bank was simply amazing.

 

How terribly irresponsible of West Coast for suggesting a sensible loco for this route! I think this is a fair case of horses for courses here, 8f's were frequent visitors to Buxton for good reason . I also believe this is the tour's best chance of getting to its destination unassisted. I have an inkling that those complaining about an 8f would also also be moaning about their big express loco with large driving wheels being helped up those twisting miles of 1 in 60..

 

Well then you will never make it to Buxton behind steam, 'spirited' or otherwise, because no other tour operator runs there!

 

If the 8F is the "perfect" loco for the job, how come it was not first choice. In fact it is only now an option as it's other tour has been cancelled. If you sell a tour with a race horse then put a cart horse in its place then your business credibility is shot at.

 

Maybe you should read the whole thread before making such comments. Then you would know that we are on this tour.

 

I sometimes have sympathy with those who object to diesels on the back, and obviously with those who lose steam altogether on a tour, but to throw a hissy fit because you might have an 8F (and I note it is only 'might' at this stage) on a hilly route rather than a mainline pacific is ludicrous.

 

Given how close we have come to losing mainline steam altogether this year, the fact that West Coast and Rtc are working together to come up with viable solutions that enable trips to happen is commendable. Buxton isn't gauge friendly, Brits have got there previously but both 70013 & 70000 are under repair. Everyone is nervous, we have seen a number of tours cancelled or run with a diesel. The fact a loco apparently has the wrong number of wheels seems to be missing the bigger picture.

 

I don't think it's the number of wheels but their size.

 

So you won't be able to travel at 75mph on the parts of the route where this would be possible? So what?

 

I'm booked and more than happy with an 8F, probably an ideal loco for a difficult route. although I think even 48151 had difficulties on the S&C in wet conditions some years ago. I drive under the viaducts at Chapel Milton twice a week - looking forward to being on them this time!

Dave

 

Quite right ,big wheels engines were not liked at Buxton. It must have been one of the hardest lines to work in the country ,what with long stretches of 1 in 58/60, having to peg brakes down, stop and lift then a bit later .I think goods trains were booked over 2 hrs for the 20 miles from Buxton to Stockport and vv . Max loads were L M S 2-6-4T 210 tons, Black 5 and Crabs 280 tons on passenger trains ,8F 380 tons or there about unassisted ( freight trains max loads were calculated in a different way ).Most freights were banked ,Whaley Bridge to Bibbington's Sidings,8 miles and Buxton to Bibbington's the other way, 2 miles.
I couldn't see 70013 being allowed more than 7 or 8 .In fact didn't the 8f stall on the 1 in 58 near Eaves Tunnel with 12 on, a few years ago, causing long delays.?
Not being a profit to gloom but I think a diesel will be assisting .

 

Because of the need to set back from Buxton station into "Donaroo" sidings in order to access the Midland route through Peak Forest, a diesel hung on the back is virtually guaranteed. I can't see sending a diesel separately from Carnforth to Buxton and back for this shunt is in any way possible, nor is getting DBC to send a loco from Peak Forest.

 

For me an 8F to Buxton unassisted is an infinitely more attractive proposition than an 8P with shovage, even if that 8P were to be FS.

Can't do 7 May but interested in 8F over Central Wales on 14th if box-free!

IIRC back in 1988 48151 was faster up to Semley, albeit with only 9 coaches, than Tornado was 3 weeks ago!

Also had a good trip round Kent with it a few years ago as well (Alton - Ascot - Canterbury - London). Not sure much else would have coped with 1:60 on restart from Camberley with 13 on, but no worries with the 8F.

 

On another thread it was posted that diesels on the back will break ORR rules on loading. That seems to imply one should not be hanging on the back. DBC seem to have one following on light paths to overcome that.

 

I did a Buxton trip in 2010, out and return via Peak Forest, and no diesel was needed. The loco ran round in the sidings and pulled the stock tender first into Buxton. On the return, having been turned round, it pulled the stock from the station to the sidings tender first and again ran round. I'm assuming the facility to do this hasn't subsequently been withdrawn?

We had a Black Five, 45305 with ten on the drawbar, and a 2-8-0 would have been a better bet given the wet day.
We slipped to a stand several times between Peak Forest and Buxton, losing the best part of an hour in the process. Some fine driving plus hand sanding ahead of the loco got us through, but eight smaller wheels may well have been easier!

A fellow passenger posted a couple of videos of the struggle; search YouTube for 45305 Battle to Buxton if interested.

 

I was on that trip too. The driver was Bill Andrew, one of his last trips before retiring in December. I spoke to him later that day and he said that he been getting close to splitting the train. Anyway his skill and perseverance triumphed. Relevant videos here:



Dave B

 

I've seen the video. As you say fine driving but it was fortunate that it was not on a line with a queue behind. The extra adhesive weight of an 8F will make all the difference.

 

An 8f on the Buxton line where John Axon ran away on 8f 48188 and earned his posthumous George Cross. An 8f over Copy Pit where they hauled and banked the heavy goods. Sounds good to me. 48151 is of course one of the "balanced" members of the class with the white star on the cabside which of course means that it can knock on a bit more than as originally built....

 

I remember it well, being a spectator at Chapel South and listening to its unsuccessful efforts further up the bank. It was 48773 which slipped to a stand though.

 

Me too and a fitting route for her return to service after overhaul, I'm grateful she's been made available again, precisely for work of this nature and, as we know, she will have relatively long periods of inactivity between trips, so let's be realistic about the investment in her, probably a case of heart ruling head, but routes such as this, the Conway valley line, or any other steeply graded secondary route may, under present circumstances regarding scrutiny, remain open to steam simply because she is, what she is...