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Cambrian Railways Engines

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by YoungRailwayMan, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. YoungRailwayMan

    YoungRailwayMan Member

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    Hey railway folks

    Just wondering as i'm only 18 and wasn't around when the Cambrian Railways ran,
    i was wondering what sort of engines use to run along the route.

    so i know what to expect from visiting engines to the upcoming Autumn steam gala on the wsr with it having a Cambrian theme.

    Many Thanks,
    YRM
     
  2. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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  3. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    See "Cambrian Railways Album" by C.C. Green published by Ian Allan. There are only three survivors, all on the narrow gauge. Of these "Prince of Wales" on the Vale of Rheidol is really an accountants rebuilt with no material left from the Cambrian loco. The Welshpool and Llanfair pair are the genuine article but technically were, I think only operated by the Cambrian, being Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railwayproperty. There are plenty of pictures of them online.

    It could be argued therefre that no Cambrian locos survive.
    P.H.
     
  4. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    There's certainly been the suggestion that 'Prince of Wales' was built by the GWR and the original scrapped.
     
  5. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The trouble is that whilst C.C. Green gave great detail as to how a new locomotive was built and camouflaged as a "rebuild", Peter Johnson has been unable to ascertain where Green got his information from. My view is that this very likely did happen and by the nature of such things it was unlikely to have been documented! However, some railway historians have been guilty of jumping without evidence to conclusions which turned out to be erroneous but cloaking this in a contrived air of scholarship. I have no reason to suppose C.C. Green to be guilty of this though.
     
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  6. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    To answer the first part of your question, ie what sort of engines used to run on the route, it might be useful to find a copy of "The Cambrian Railways" by Christiansen and Miller. Annoyingly part one which covers 1852 to 1888 is an easier find than part 2. An appendix at the end of part one lists 59 various locomotives owned by the Cambrian during the dates mentioned above. Virtually all engines carried names, and tender engine types included 0-6-0's, 0-4-2's, 2-4-0's and 4-4-0's. As mentioned by other posters, none survive from that era.

    As to what classes of engine worked on the ex-Cambrian lines up to the end of steam, I suppose the most remembered would be the Standard class 4 4-6-0, and the "Manor" 4-6-0. Someone else will no doubt be able to confirm which of the preserved "Manors" worked on the Cambrian lines, notably hauling the Cambrian Coast Express from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury and vice-versa. Probably most of them did at one time or another.

    46118
     
  7. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Don't forget the Dukedog is very much a Cambrian lines piece of kit, although she's not running at the moment. The 2251 would be another candidate I should think. Off hand without books handy I'm not sure about the 4300.
     
  8. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    as for Cambrian engines the engines were many and varied. Engines from the builders of Sharp Stewart, Naysmith Wilson had Tank engines running, along with designs from Stephenson and even a ex-Metropolitan tank which was converted to a 4-4-0 tender engine. I think I can say with some certainty that none of these will be making an appearance...

    they will probably be concentrating on the period from 1923 on and as for the most remembered class of engine that featured on the Cambrian I would say would be the Manors and Dukedogs. the GWR classes that appeared on the Cambrian were 90xx, 0-6-0 Dean Goods, 45xx, Collett Goods, 78xx, 43xx, 2251, railmotors, 14xx, among the BR classes were of course standard 4's now im not sure if the Cambrian saw any Standard 2's or 5's but I believe that 3's were seen from time to time.

    the Talyllyn Railway were known for there odd loco combinations along the Cambrian for their AGM specials from Paddington. so the Cambrian did see a L&Y Tank, a T9, GWR railcars and a wainwright D class.

    it should be a great gala down at the WSR and I hope to get there! I see from their website that a Welsh NG engine may also be attending.
     
  9. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    and just a quick note regarding GWR No.9 it is just that a GWR engine, there is nothing Davies and Metcalfe on the engine. 1213 was scrapped at Swindon and was not a rebuild. CC Green was well in at the VoR enjoying many a footplate ride and got to know the staff quite well so knew all the ins and outs.
     
  10. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Standard class 2 2-6-0s were based at Mach but the 5s never appeared, too heavy presumably. The Ivatt class 2 2-6-0s were very common on the route. BR persisted with some of the original Cambrian Railway's 0-6-0 tender engines (Beyer Peacocks I think) until some time in the 1950s. Standard 3s were used to replace the 45xx/4575 class.
     
  11. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    presumably Class 2 and 3 tanks too? I couldn't find any in my recently acquired CC Green Cambrian Coast book Dovey Junction - Barmouth.
     
  12. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Standard Class 3 tanks yes, not the tender engines. Not seen any photos of Standard/Ivatt Class 2 tanks.
     
  13. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I never saw any Std or Ivatt 2 tanks on the Cambrian Coast section (just the tender variants). However Ivatt 2 tanks did get to Oswestry from Gobowen after the LMR takeover. In addition 74xx and 57xx panniers worked through to Barmouth from Dolgellau. Under BR(W) the only standard 4's were the 4-6-0's usually green, some with double chimneys but under BR(M) the 2-6-4's (mostly exLT&S) appeared and then the Std 4 2-6-0's. Other ex LMS classes could also be seen at Afon Wen on trains from Bangor over the ex LNW line.
    YRM, Rex Kennedy's "Steam on the Cambrian" will give you a lot of information.
     
  14. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    there is a photo of a Std 3 tender engine making its way up the Dolgellau branch from the direction of Barmouth Junction with a passenger train so presumably did get to the coast line. if only Barmouth Junction. :p
     
  15. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    whilst im not disagreeing with you Neil i have no photographic proof of Beyer Peacock 0-6-0's in use after 1923 (or before in fact) in this book however there are Aston 0-6-0's in use c.1925
     
  16. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    damn! forgot to mention another BR engine which has traveled over the Cambrian! 6203 'Princess Margret Rose' has passed over the Cambrian during BR years... but why?
     
  17. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Being dragged out of Butlins in Pwllheli.
     
  18. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    There's plenty of photographs of them if you have the right books.

    Machynlleth to Barmouth by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith

    Plate 52: 895 (formerly CR 101) at Tywyn shunting in the sidings by Wharf

    'A return to Pwllheli please' by Derek J Lowe

    Page 10: 895 at Machllyneth in 1954
    Page 18: 849 at Machllyneth in 1954
    Page 28: 849 at Dovey Junction in 1954
    Page 84: 864 in 'early 1950s' at Portmadoc
    Page 110: 864 in 'early 1950s' at Fairbourne

    I haven't time to consult all my books as we're off to the racecourse now.

    :)
     
  19. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    indeedy, she was split from her tender at Barmouth to go over the bridge though! :p
     
  20. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    ahaa yes! found GWR No.895 now, surprised I overlooked it originally! probably due to it already being Swindonised and at a glance looking quite western anyway...
     

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