Castle at waterloo ?

they had to do something with them, doing nothing wasn't an option

 

Didn't say anything contrary to the above but it seems the BR regime considered only scrap or rebuild, nothing in between. The fact that a number of originals outlasted their rebuilt cousins, seven made it to the last year of SR steam, shows that they were not as bad as some people make out.

 

Given the speedier run down of steam than was first planned, it can be argued that the rebuild programme was a waste of money.

 

Pacifics are more prone to slips than 4-6-0 (for similar power and axle-weight), and Light Pacifics are, well, lighter. And they still do it. An experienced driver knows what to expect and can catch the slip quickly. Here's Tangmere restarting from Salisbury on 4th July. Can anyone can identify the driver, please? It would be nice to credit him in the clip notes.

 

only with hindsight. The rebuild programme was cancelled when it was realised that steam had no future and full dieselisation /electrification was rushed ahead. The operators were stuck with the unrebuilts then and didnt a lot of them end up on the S&D and hauling 3 coach sets in Devon?

 

I remember reading somewhere, the rebuilds were as a result of tests which showed a sound machine which with improvements and simplifications could at little cost provide a machine suitable of mainline operation until 1980.
At a life span of 35 years that's not unreasonable to sanction a midlife overhaul... Dozens of other classes went through mid life overhauls, and the early 60's they were midlife.

 

No, a lot didn't end up on the S&D. Bath lost its allocation quite early but many did continue to work over the S&D on holiday extras. The reason for the originals working short trains on the Withered Arm was a) the rebuilds were barred west of Exeter and b) there weren't too many 12 coach trains in that part of the country outside the peak holiday season. These same originals were still trusted with much heavier trains east of Exter and on the Bournemouth line where such loads were more common. Had the rebuilds been cleared to work to Padstow, Ilfracombe etc. they would have ended up working the same short trains as the originals.
As for the operators being "stuck" with them, whilst the reasons for a locomotive's withdrawal were manyfold, if the originals were as bad as some people make them out then I'm sure they would have been eliminated long before the rebuilds.

 

The extent of the rebuilding was a tad more than a mid life overhaul.

 

Me too! Me too.

 

Posted on Waterloo Sunset thread in General Railway chat, or I will get dealt with again!

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/waterloo-sunset.86730/

 

i don't know but I would imagine that some unrebuilts were overhauled during the rebuild period , meaning they would naturally survive longer than the first rebuilds...that's just a guess.

 

Not an unreasonable supposition but I'm sure if BR(S) had wanted to become an "all rebuild" zone then that could have been arranged.

 

The canard about "pulling three coach sets in Devon" shows a misconception about the geography of the area.

The GW mainline west of can best be described as a herringbone - a long mainline with a series of short branches coming off from either side. So the efficient way to work it was for the mainline train to run more or less complete the whole length of the mainline, connecting at each junction station with a short branch line train. So naturally that meant a mainline engine with a heavy load, and small branch engines taking the small one or two coach trains along the branches.

The South Western mainline west of Exeter was fundamentally different in character. Rather than a mainline and branches, it could best be described as a tree, with a main trunk (Exeter to Coleford Junction) that then split into two sections of more or less equal importance (the Plymouth and the North Devon Lines), each of which then further split, with lines or more or less equal importance to Bude, Padstow etc.

Given that geography, a "mainline plus branches" service doesn't really work. Instead, the service was operated by a large train starting out west from Exeter, and splitting at each junction. In that circumstance, the train engine would continue with whichever was the main portion, and another engine would take the other portion forward. In that circumstance, it isn't too surprising that in the far west, the train engine (that may have left Exeter with 10 or 12 coaches) might only have 2 or 3 by time it finally rolled into Padstow. But what would be more economical in that circumstance - using the pacific below its capacity, or stopping it at, say, Okehampton or Wadebridge and then having another engine especially fired up just because economics says a class 2 is better suited to a three coach train than a class 7? Actually, economically it made sense for the pacific to run the lightweight train; in any case the fire would be well run down and effectively the last few miles would have been done on little more than residual heat in the boiler. Cheaper than having a special engine lit up for the service.

Tom

 

tangmere has seen more use than any loco for last two years AND putting in good performances to boot not bad for a none swindon loco!!

 

Tangmere is of course in great condition with maintenance second to none, this wasn't always the case way back when.

 

Another point - often overlooked - is that the Pacifics were built by Bulleid on precisely that logic of being a STANDARD locomotive which may appear too large for the service being operated BUT by handling such trains as part of a diagram would reduce costs by (a) minimising stocks of spares (b) reducing the varieties of locomotives - especially the pre-grouping classes from a variety of builders and (c) make it easier to crews who would need to learn a lesser number of locomotive classes. The Cornish branches mentioned were one of the areas where Bulleid felt that the benefits of standardisation would more than balance the excess power used to haul the "local" services - including freights.

 

Very capable machines on heavy loads. I timed 34019 once on a 500 ton train, starting up Roundwood bank at Winchester with just under 55 over the top. Then an even time start to stop run to Woking Junction from Basingstoke, just over 23 miles. And the climb up Roundwood would have started "cold" as we had crawled up from Eastleigh to Winchester start to stop, 7 miles in 23 minutes due to wrong line working with engineering work slacks.

 

We seem to be digressing (What's new on Nat Pres!!) I'd still be interested to know whihc GWR 4-6-0s (if any) could fit over which SR routes, and if any tours with such locos have ever run, or planned to be run on lines other than Basingstoke- Salisbury-Yeovil or 6024's Basingstoke-Laverstock-Weymouth trip. I'm also intrigued as to whether the slim-line cylinder casing proposed for 6024 will enable it to run on any additional SR lines.

 

I'm sure a Manor could run on quite a few of them...