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Cathedrals Express - 5th December 2015

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by sunstream, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. sunstream

    sunstream Member Friend

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    RTT times suggest destination is now Appleby instead of Carlisle:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50520/2015/12/05/advanced
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50521/2015/12/05/advanced
     
  2. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Maybe unconnected but 5407 returns north tomorrow, 4871 at Bury ... 2+2 ... or could that be 5+5?
     
  4. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    The SD website now states that it will be hauled by Galatea, not the Scot.

    James
     
  5. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    It is obvious as to which loco of the Carnforth pool has been in the best condition.
     
  6. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Nobody likes this
    Mike Dabo is straight likes this
     
  7. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Yes indeed 45690 by a mile .
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Well let's hope that SD reduces the length of the train otherwise it'll be a Jubilee on one end and a Class 47 on the other from Carnforth.
     
  9. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    I don't think Leander has done 20+ tours this year Stephen
    The 2 Jubilees though are indeed:)
     
  10. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

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    Hoping this trip is going to be 4th time of asking after all of the pitfalls its been through over the last 18 months.Can anyone enlighten me as to whether a passenger pick up is still
    at Northampton and that the trip is still going up shap and down the S&C. Real time train site says different .
    Cant wait to go behind Galatea. Last time I saw this engine was in bits at Tyseley .
     
  11. sunstream

    sunstream Member Friend

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    Service trains to/from Rugby for Northampton passengers, see SD web site:
    http://www.steamdreams.com/executables/GT410WebContent.exe?ActionCode=Timings

    Still north over Shap and south over S&C but not going into Carlisle.
     
  12. Nick Gough

    Nick Gough Well-Known Member

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    Ticket letter from SD says, "due to engineering works on the East Coast Main Line, extra trains are being diverted though Carlisle and Network Rail will not give us a platform to stop there with our train."

    "If you particularly want to visit Carlisle, please let us know by Friday 4 December before 12.30pm and we can make arrangements for our staff to escort you from Preston to Carlisle to spend some time there. This will give passengers who particularly want to visit the city approximately 2 hours in Carlisle before travelling to Appleby to re-join the train and head South over the Fells to London. "

    We'll be giving that a miss even though my wife wanted to go on this train for the Christmas market - well done Notwork Fail!
     
  13. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    Seems reasonable to me - the line from Newcastle to Edinburgh is shut on Saturday and diversions are running via Carlisle which obviously restricts paths - should NR have prioritised a charter instead? Incidentally I note that there is a diesel charter stopping at Carlisle on Saturday on the way north - presumably causing less disruption due to leas occupation time and no need for manoeuvres.
     
  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The loss of Carlisle was probably inevitable the moment that Network Rail had to handle the extra traffic due to the engineering work. However, hasn't anyone at Steam Dreams been paying attention to the regular pattern of CMEs with the RTC?

    Had they done so, it would immediately have become apparent that:
    1. The early morning path only works up the WCML via Weedon and with an electric loco.
    2. If you use a (slower) diesel then you lose the Watford pick-up and passengers have to join at Milton Keynes.
    3. Northampton as a pick up is not possible with either motive power (see #1) if you hope to slot into the standard path at Carnforth.
    What I don't get is that WCRC already knows this so why the trip was advertised in the first place is rather surprising.
     
  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Good points Alan, maybe JS will enlighten us with the back story.
     
  16. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that then.
     
    26D_M likes this.
  17. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    He sometimes does post to explain why certain operational decisions have been taken / forced upon WC. The points Alan raises might merit a reply but breath not being held.
    Looking more like only WC owned / managed locos prohibited now with 5043 out yesterday and 46233 confirmed for its run on Saturday. Will WC have an unprohibited steam loco on Saturday?
     
  18. wcmlbls1846

    wcmlbls1846 Member

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    There are Saturday East Coast diversions through Carlisle every autumn, so this Saturday's situation might have been foreseen.

    Andrew N
     
  19. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    As is well-known on this forum, promoters can propose 'ambitious' itineraries, which usually form the basis of their initial promotional material and can remain 'as is' or unaltered, despite evidence from subsequent events. Al is quite correct in stating that previous experience with CMEs has shown that the path only works via Weedon; even with electric haulage, Watford Junction has now had to be dropped, as margins are simply too tight.

    Promoters (and their TOCs) usually do their Rules of the Route checks to ascertain whether chosen routes are open and clear of engineering, well in advance of submitting their proposals. In this case, the chosen routes would have been shown to be clear, although whether other routes and engineering works, further afield, were checked is probably unlikely (where does one stop?). Even if the diversions were flagged up, the actual detailed re-planning of access to Carlisle station platforms would not necessarily be available until much nearer the time; the final revision has to take into account all operations stopping or passing through Carlisle, on the day.

    As has happened in the past, sometimes charters can be accommodated, sometimes they can't, as has proved to be the case, this time. The options were discussed with the promoter and Appleby was the revised option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
    Big Al, iancawthorne, 26D_M and 2 others like this.
  20. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that James,saves a lot of rumour building
     

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