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Cathedrals Express 6233 to Bristol 7th October

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by alastair, Oct 3, 2010.

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  1. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    I think the problem is not so much having a box attached, but how much "shoving" it does en-route. Saying that, as long as the box is there, the "shoving" risk is always present. If the reason for the box is for shunting purposes, it should stay at that-shunting. Who or what decides when a box "shoves" anyway? At the box driver's whim? Steam Dreams quote that steam does 95% exclusive work on box assisted tours, I think it was a lot less than that on last weeks Bristol trip. More like 50% as it seems that the box was "shoving" on most of the return journey if the reports on here are anything to go by .
     
  2. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Depends what stock is used as some are eth only. Does 6233 have problems with it's steam heat gear? I see it has steam heat pipes fitted front & rear. I originally thought it might the support coach not fitted with steam pipes but I have since seen a photo showing steam pipes fitted to it.
     
  3. Cambrian55

    Cambrian55 Member Friend

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    It has been said before by those that have experience of this that the diesel driver does not 'push on a whim', only by prior agreement with the lead loco driver, say when the speed drops below a cetain figure or when needing to make quick starts in order to keep to schedule, or if in an emergency when called upon by the lead loco driver.
    I would think that this Saturday the diesel on the PMR trip to London will be there to provide heating. It could also be that the support coach is not through piped for steam...
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    As I have said before, I thought the support coach may not support steam heating. Looking at this picture, you can clearly see the steam heat pipe under the RH buffer.

    http://rickeborallphotography.fotopic.net/p67639281.html
     
  5. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    These are the general rules for rear-engine assistance:

    The diesel cannot and does not start pushing on its driver's whim. It can only do so in specific circumstances:

    Instructions in the sectional appendix.

    Prearranged special instructions for that particular train

    At the request of and on the authority of the driver of the lead loco.

    there is NO OTHER condition in which the diesel on the rear can apply power
     
  6. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    We were on steam heat on the trip to Chester last week.
     
  7. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    So why the box on the 16th October?
     
  8. malc

    malc Well-Known Member

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    Even though it was steam-heated last week, it will almost certainly be a different set of stock on Saturday, one or more coaches of which may not be steam-heated.
     
  9. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Judging by the hefty jolts from the rear of the train on starting away from stops on the return run on the 7th October it was very apparent that the 37 was doing most of the work after Westbury. One shove in particular was worrying for those in the dining section as if they were serving soup at the time I think most of it would have gone over the carriage rather than in the plate! It certainly spilled a few drinks in our carriage.
     
  10. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    Some stock retained it's Steam Heating facility whilst others had it stripped out when ETH was fitted. What are the alternatives for the latter stock other than a diesel?
     
  11. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    Generator Car,DBS/Riviera have more than one & VSOE certainly have one.I may be wrong but I don't think West Coast use them,mores the shame.Its quite a noisy beast but at least it can't push!!
     
  12. malc

    malc Well-Known Member

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    West Coast do have at least one generator car, but it doesn't seemed to be used much on steam tours.
     
  13. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    Who chooses if the generator cars are used? Tour operator or owners?
     
  14. palace gates

    palace gates Guest

    This is really all about being Risk averse.Even if they had used a generator car in this instance,the restrictions for an A4 with two tenders,the train would have had a job to keep the schedule.Again the train was a bit heavy for the engine on that line and would not fit into the frequency of the other traffic on the line.
     
  15. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    Back to the loco not being that of choice and capable of the load booked then.
     
  16. palace gates

    palace gates Guest

    The engine is capable of shifting the load.Its the line restrictions put on it because of weight and the second tender that were the problem in this instance.
    In saying that I do not think that the engine is performing as well as the other A4s when running out on a long day.Mornings seem O.K. but afternoons and evenings
    are sometimes a bit lackluster this being the case on this one and when it went to Plymouth recently.
     
  17. tfftfftff86

    tfftfftff86 Member

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    What's the lowest number of paying coaches that would justify making a tour a double header? Performance wise, the part-route addition of 5029 to the Mayflower was a success. It might be interesting to read where the purists would rate inauthentic DH steam on their scale of disdain, above or below steam + DL?
     
  18. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    Give me double head any day...
     
  19. Mikem

    Mikem Member

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    This tour with 6233 has been running to King's Cross about the same time for the past

    3-4 years or so. There has always been a Diesel on the rear.

    This I would emagine for several reasons, starting and finishing diesel hauled.

    West Coast Traction to take the empties out and back in. And I would of thought the main reason

    to assist the Loco and support coach over the East Coast Main Line around Harringay and Ferm Park

    when turning.This has always been a successful and efficient operation.

    Mike M. (70c)
     
  20. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

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    6233 has managed stock all alone on many occassions. It has dropped off and picked up a 47 when tour is part diseasal hauled. Only reason to drag a box is for heat. Genny car would look so much better.
     
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