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Cathedrals Express to Holyhead 18/11/2017 45699 vice 46233

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by sunstream, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. sunstream

    sunstream Member Friend

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    Left Crewe 11 late with 45699, load 12, 37 on rear pushing vigorously.

    In view of some subsequent posts I wish to make it clear that the above was simply a statement of what I saw/heard on the Railcam at Crewe and was not intended to imply criticism of anyone involved in the operation of this train.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  2. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Overloaded Jubilee. No wonder there is a 37 pushing. Stick to the load limits and a rear gunner would not be needed or use a class 8
     
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  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    To be fair, wasn't this one of those 'rock and a hard place issues'? The train was set up for a Duchess and loaded for a Duchess. The booked loco fails and there is nothing big enough that can be used as a substitute. So you end up with steam (good) but it has to have support (not so good).
    I have to say that I presume that the diesel was needed anyway for the shunt at Holyhead as the North Wales route is as flat as a pancake and even a Jubilee on its own with 12 might have coped. Obviously with a Cl 37 on the back that would have been impossible.
     
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  4. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    As the Duchess was in steam Wednesday and then failed Big Al is right. Where is this mythical available Class 8 loco coming from with USA out as well? SD could of course just used the 37, so surely this is a better solution. Good on WCRC for arranging it I say.
     
  5. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    Thank you. Given that I spent most of Thursday trying to rewrite a considerable part of the December steam programme, as a result of the withdrawal of both 6233 and No.9, perhaps the previous poster should reconsider his comments (not for the first time).

    JS
     
  6. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Well-Known Member

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    Won't that make a good headline though James? No need to worry about the effort gone into a last minute substitute and organisation of support crew, supplies and obviously light engine moves.
     
  7. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Ok, with the late failure of the Duchess...........what would you have done?
     
  8. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Oh dear another black mark from Carnforth. OK yes I wasn't aware that both class 8s had failed. Was the DL needed anyway ? As Al says the there are no significant gradients.
     
  9. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    The freshly overhauled Class 8 at Carnforth is not available yet then....

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Since there was only just over 2 hours at Holyhead to turn and service the loco, it is was also certainly there to shunt the stock ( as suggested by Big Al).
     
  11. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    Gauging? At less than 48 hrs’ notice?

    Anyway, a picture made p.4 of today’s Sunday Telegraph (as ‘Leander’ did three weeks ago), which is probably rather more useful.

    JS
     
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  12. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    How can the failure of a loco based at Butterley and not Carnforth's responsibility be a black mark against them? Given the bureaucracy of getting anything changed on NR I would say that they worked wonders in getting a substitute loco on the front of the train at such short notice.
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Pray tell why Carnforth should be held responsible for a loco they neither own nor maintain. Still, why let facts get in the way of a rant?
     
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  14. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think the comments made by said poster in the Lune Rivers thread tell the story of posters position and opinions WRT WCRC.
     
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  15. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Cheerleaders out in force again ......
    Wasn't the black mark @gricerdon referenced perceived against himself rather than Carnforth? Still, at least it provided material for rants of your own ......
    Whilst on the subject, I agree arranging a short notice sub was excellent work and the original grumble by @gricerdon was unreasonable. Hopefully JS gets the recognition he deserves from his employer.
    Sorry to be a reality curmudgeon though, many people have to regularly go above and beyond unexpectedly in the course of their jobs without ever seeking public acclaim for it.
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Are you therefore saying that it OK for people to criticise WCR but not for others to defend them...
     
  17. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    That is fair enough.
    I just wondered if she was available for use after her earlier teething troubles.

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
     
  18. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    I meant a black mark for me
     
  19. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    I said from not for. The black mark is mine
     
  20. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Firstly, I will admit to despising expression of self-regard.
    Secondly, as I said, the criticism by @gricerdon was unwarranted; anyone with basic subject knowledge understands it is difficult, often impossible, to provide contingency for failed FTRs so to moan about a diesel on the back was egregious whether or not it was planned for irrespective of loco.
    Finally, where criticism of businesses is concerened I think it is sadly part and parcel of running a public facing company but also that representatives are entitled to offer a reasonable defence. The real question is why the small cabal seeks to defend everything, not with fact or counter argument often, but by questioning the right or motives of the challengers.
    What I see in the case of WC is that often reasonable challenges are raised but go unresponded yet the stuff which is plainly daft illicits often equally pointless replies from WC. Meanwhile the small band of cheerleaders gets all hot and bothered about who or why some people express mostly perfectly polite and reasonable disatisfaction. Leave it to the folk its aimed at and if they are not minded to respond why should you be?
     

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