If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Cotton Mill Express 2020

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,307
    Likes Received:
    2,658
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brampton, Cumbria
    Nice to see a return of the Cotton Mills Express. How many years since this last ran, ten? How many years since RTC advertised something over Standedge?
     
    lil Bear, 26D_M and jonathonag like this.
  2. Davo

    Davo New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    192
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W yorkshire 56f
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    2012 last tour i recall was the scarborough flyer from crewe via stanedge tunnel in sepember that year until T.P.E. Enhanced their timetable and even freight trains got diverted over the ex L.Y.R. line due to the timetable changes and all i can recall since then 60163 got diverted over the stanedge line i cant remember on which tour it was in 2017 i think and 60103 went light engine westbound and the Britania express 70000 on a private charter to Hull 30 march 2019
     
  3. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,850
    Likes Received:
    846
    Occupation:
    A Thingy...
    Cotton Mills the standout for me. Its a pretty ambitious itinerary over the Pennines considering its 2019, not 2012, so there will probably be changes. Regardless, I'm in.
     
    John Merry likes this.
  4. Steamage

    Steamage Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,478
    Likes Received:
    775
    Location:
    Oxford
    Indeed. The old Past Time Rail version was just a single circuit. Completing 2 in a day is quite ambitious. I guess the second circuit will mostly be in the dark, being late Feb.
     
  5. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Relaxingly retired
    Location:
    Deep in the country
    Loved the Past Time Version as it gave us a chance to do the trains without worrying about service train times.
     
    26D_M likes this.
  6. Davo

    Davo New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    192
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W yorkshire 56f
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Will there be a allowance timeslot though the cotton mills express wiĺl be on the transpennine route for huddersfield and bradley jct sometimes T.P.E. are every 20 mins so there must be some allowance i presume, and then squeeze it on the calder valley line i know there are 2 trains each hour sometimes 3 but not every hour with grand central running bradford kings cross trains through brighouse, when 60163 did the mad hatter it had to trundle at 40mph behind a late running northern unit from halifax to preston it got to copy pit and picked up a bit did tornado cos the northern unit must have cleared the signals going through burnley. If N.R. allow it to run like freight trains do it can be done seen ads though W.C.R.C./ R.T.C. have to bid for paths likewise.
     
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    14,242
    Likes Received:
    10,874
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I've no idea why you think that anyone on here will be able to even guess the answers to your questions. The trip is next year. The bid will not have been submitted by West Coast yet. West Coast won't have attempted to time it yet...etc etc.....
     
    lil Bear and steamvideosnet like this.
  8. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,037
    Going round much of the circuit twice does seem very ambitious, but even if it turns out somewhat different it could still be a very good trip.
     
  9. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    395
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I’m really interested in doing this one, so long as, with the need to travel to/ from the Midlands, the start and finish times don’t vary too dramatically from what has so far been published by RTC. But before booking, I’d really like to understand the concerns that have been hinted at by the suggestions that this may be a bit ambitious as a two-circuit itinerary.

    Assuming that the overall interval between departure time from Manchester Victoria in the morning for the first circuit, to the arrival time back there in the evening from the second circuit, is broadly as published (at this stage admittedly based on only very indicative timings, of course), then it would be interesting to know where potential problems might lay. The morning’s itinerary covers 65.8 route miles for which the indicative schedule provided is basically three hours – inclusive of a Brighouse water stop. For the record, the Tornado excursion back in May (“the Mad Hatter”) covered the northern 36.1 mile section of this leg, from Bradley Wood Junction to Blackburn in 68 minutes despite heavy checks along the Calder Valley – so an overall allowance of three hours including the bit from Manchester Victoria to Bradley Wood Junction is surely ample to get to a lunchtime stopover in Blackburn.

    Then 38 miles to get back to ManVic plus a further 65.4 miles for the second, shorter circular, totalling 103.4 miles for the afternoon’s itinerary, for which an allowance of just over four hours has been scheduled, inclusive of a second Brighouse water stop. Seems reasonable, and one other good thing about this is that the arrival time back into ManVic coincides almost exactly with sunset time in Manchester (17.45) on this, the last day of February. So it’s only going to be the last bit of the days outing, the return to Preston/ Lancaster, that will be made in the dusk/ dark.

    At face value, all this looks pretty good to me, even given the forebodings which I have about Commentators’ Curses and the possibility/ (likelihood?) that much could change before the day of the race. But I’m always open to the guidance of Wiser Counsel and those who may be far more familiar with problems that can beset railtours threading through the densely-knit geography of routes and junctions in this part of the Central Pennines.

    So, “Caveat Emptor” is the watchword for the moment. Any thoughts? Any insights? Any cautionary anecdotes? I’d really like to know.
     
    Oswald T Wistle and MellishR like this.
  10. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,307
    Likes Received:
    2,658
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brampton, Cumbria
    I would think the last time the Cotton Mills Express ran, which afaik was 17th July 2010 is a reasonably good reference as it follows the same format. Pathing will have changed no doubt to fit in with the timetable of 2020, but it sounds quite similar to the outline times at least.

    http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t10/t0717d.htm
     
    lil Bear and Where's Mazeppa? like this.
  11. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,037
    I was on one on 13th December 2008 which only went round once and was scheduled to take nearly six hours to do that: http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t08/t1213b.htm
    I didn't note actual times but I don't recall its being far off its schedule.
     
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    30,337
    Likes Received:
    5,128
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There was also a lengthy water stop at Blackburn which included moving the stock to a siding, the watering was always completed with plenty of time to spare.
     
  13. lil Bear

    lil Bear Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,840
    Likes Received:
    989
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway Technician
    Location:
    8C / 5D / 27C / 71B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm surprised no-one has tried a simpler circuit, offering a morning and afternoon departure.

    Manc Vic - Todmorden - Blackburn - Bolton - Manc Vic. Morning Brunch and Afternoon Tea for the diners, huge catchment area with Manchester and the number of possible connections there. No idea how pathing would be though for this, but on face value I'd of thought easier than what is proposed. Hoping the Cotton Mill does stay as a permanent feature, one of the best mainline trips I've ever had was with 5690 when she hauled one of the originals.
     
    26D_M likes this.
  14. neildimmer

    neildimmer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,180
    Likes Received:
    286
    Just noticed RTC have resurrected the Cotton Mill Express on the 29th Feb doing 2 circuits across the Pennines
     
  15. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    395
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well worth highlighting; just for reference, the "RTC 2019" thread has already featured a number of posts about this, roughly from Post 204 onward; I think that this highlights why it is so helpful to have a clear distinction between what gets posted as information about tour operator's future programmes embracing multiple excursions ( both repeat and unique itineraries) on the one hand, and specific posts about specific outings, normally commencing with the posting of RTT data when timings are released.

    Difficult as it may be to work out a hard and fast distinction about what gets posted where, I'm sure that it's within the gift of the Mods to work something out that is both robust and comprehensible to all regular contributors to the "Whats Going On" part of the Forum.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,348
    Likes Received:
    2,037
    There was already some discussion of what goes where at https://www.national-preservation.c...ng-on-with-the-what’s-going-on-forum.1416968/ but that concerns repeat itineraries versus one-offs. Then there is general discussion of tour promoters' future plans. This last is inherently likely to generate a series of posts about one particular trip, as has happened for the Cotton Mill Express.

    I agree that it could do with being sorted out ― but I'm not sure how. Maybe when the discussion focusses on one trip those posts should be moved to there own thread.
     
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    30,337
    Likes Received:
    5,128
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Cotton Mill Express now has this dedicated thread, RTC 2020 thread available for general RTC stuff including regular trips.
    In general, please make sure that there is not already a thread running for your particular comments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    14,242
    Likes Received:
    10,874
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    To my mind it all started getting messy when a few folk decided that a thread should be started months away from the event. Not certain what is gained by posts that appear the moment a tour pops up. Possible exceptions are the GB tours but....
     
    steamvideosnet likes this.
  19. neildimmer

    neildimmer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,180
    Likes Received:
    286
    I wonder why the chance was not taken to run one cycle of the Pennines in reverse? I believe it was done once only when Past time ran it
     
  20. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,432
    Likes Received:
    4,529
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Can't believe this was 11 years ago! How time flies by :eek:

    DSC01530.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019

Share This Page