Crewe Heritage Centre for Sale

I'm sorry to say that what you have posted is true, Michael. The place is a bit of a tip, with much of the untidiness caused by the activities of LNWRHCo. Yet, ironically, in 1994 one of the things that PW said was necessary to improve the Centre was to 'Clear up the clutter.'

With regard to car parking, there should be more on-site car parking , but the bulk of the original car park has been appropriated by LNWRHCo. for its own purposes of materials storage and housing portable buildings. As far as I am aware all of this has been done without the consent of Crewe Heritage Trust.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

This morning BBC Radio Stoke featured an interview with a representative of Crewe Heritage Trust on their 'Breakfast' programme. If you missed it you can catch it on the website which is at:

BBC - BBC Radio Stoke - Featured Content

When you go onto it, find the section for 'Breakfast with Pete Morgan.' if you click on the little loudspeaker icon by his picture you will be able to hear todays' programme. The piece about Crewe Heritage Centre is between 00:53:02 and 00:58:28 pn the player.

After today, to find the programme, you will need to go the the '5 more' section at the bottom of the 'Breakfast with Pete Morgan' part of the homepage. The Wednesday 14th March programme is under the heading 'Back together after 30 years.' It looks as though the programme should be available for listening to for about a week.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

The problem is surely that no one other than PW is presenting a clear vision for the site. I would far rather see the site used as a museum with the indoor buildings used as a display, like "the Engine Shed" at Highley and with the Signal Boxes as a major feature. That would probably mean going to the length of little or no on-site restoration work. The two really are virtually incompatible. The thinking should be more along the lines of Highley, York, Shildon.

But is that viable?

There seems to be no driving force other than PW. It may be that he has just given up working with the Centre as a lost cause. Unfortunately, you have to be forceful if you are an Entrepreneur. It is a clear lesson to other multi-user sites.

 

There is a driving force and it is called Crewe Heritage Trust. But they cannot work effectively because of Mr. Waterman's occupation of part of the site and his refusal to act responsibly by signing a proper sub-lease.

Read back through the earlier postings and you will realise the obstacle they are up against.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

I have read every post on this thread. I have not got PWs side of things but I can always ask him if he is at Nottingham Model Rail tomorrow.

Is there an alternative, viable business plan though? That is the question. I fear you may be checkmated.

 

To put it simply the situation seems to boil down to this:

PW wants the site to expand his business and establish his rail academy

Crewe Heritage Trust want to try and reverse the decay of the past and start getting the site back to being a good visitor attraction again.

Given the limited size of the site the two cannot possibly sit together as amicable bedfellows.

Ask PW what you like, but there is plenty of documentary evidence (including the December 1998 'Steam Railway' article) to show that what he says and what he does are often two very different things.

Meanwhile we at the 'Exeter West Group,' who have done nothing but deliver exactly what we promised in 1991, sit in the middle of all this - innocent victims and wondering what will befall.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

More interesting reading:

No to HS2 Blog: Yelling Pete Waterman ignores the facts - Uxbridge Gazette

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

I always think these little snipes at Pete Waterman only make you look bitter, Peter.

 

Well, if you want me to be brutally honest, Neil, yes I am bitter- and I consider I have good reason to feel that way.

I founded the project to save Exeter West in 1982 and have led it ever since. Lots of people told me that it couldn’t be done, but by sheer grit and determination I proved them wrong. I spent lots of time liaising with BR, walking the streets of Exeter knocking on the doors of known enthusiasts to drum up support. I spent days distributing our first book around the bookshops of Devon so that we could raise funds. I went without sleep for two nights over the weekend in July 1985 when we had to load all the parts onto a train and bring them away from Exeter. I spent more time than any of our volunteers working on restoration when the box got to Bristol but then our hopes for a site there were dashed. I organised the removal of the box from there to our promised new home at Swindon and spent four days of my summer holiday assisting with the removal. I continued assisting with restoration at Swindon as well as liaising with Tarmac Properties over where the box might be sited. Our hopes there were dashed in 1990 and that was when we negotiated the deal with Crewe Heritage Centre, which we were assured was to be a high-quality visitor attraction. I organised and assisted with the removal of all the parts from Swindon at Easter 1991 and also assisted with the unloading at Crewe the following weekend. I continued to lead and assist with the rebuilding of the box at Crewe and, when we had lots of parts stacked up outdoors and on pallets, I vividly recall one of the Trustees coming to me one day in May or June 1991 and saying, ‘You are going to get this box put up quickly, aren’t you, because we don’t want the place looking like a scrapyard.’ How ironic that now sounds!

I continued to lead the restoration team, and to such good effect that in 1995 we won the Westinghouse signalling award in the National Railway Heritage Awards – the only major award (as far as I know) to be won by anything on the Crewe site. I’ve continued to be a regular visitor to Crewe over the years (I was last there just a few weeks ago for a meeting on further developments with our box) and it breaks my heart to see it surrounded by such dereliction. We kept our promise made in 1991 but Crewe Heritage Trust and Pete Waterman didn’t keep theirs. So, yes, I am bitter and I’m sure that after what you have just read you will agree that I have good reason to be.

Now tell me what YOU have done for railway preservation since 1982.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Petulance won't win you any arguments on here or when you have to argue against LNWR or the local council.

 

You employ a very curious form of logic, Neil. I give you a detailed statement of fact and you then accuse me of being 'petulant.'

You also say,'Petulance won't win you any arguments.' Well, you need to go and convince Mr. Waterman of that fact because the whole point of posting the links such as I did today is that he seems to think that it will and is a tactic that was employed in negotiations with Crewe Heritage Trust. But how can you have any sort of meaningful negotiation with someone who behaves like that when they aren't getting their own way?

And please don't worry about me. If I didn't know how to handle people properly Exeter West would have been firewood in 1985.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

I never asked for your personal history Peter - I suggested that your petty sniping at Pete Waterman isn't helping you create the right impression to protect Crewe Heritage Centre and Exeter West.

 

And after your put down of Peter's contribution, and a very technical rather than public facing one at that, your pedigree is? Neil?

We are still waiting after your oh so clever comment

 

To try and bring this discussion back to a more rational state - a friend has kindly provided some internet space so that I've been able to place all the information I have regarding the Heritage Centre since 1994 into one place so that everyone can access it. The material is at:

Index of /chc/

Here you will find the following:

1. The minutes of the Crewe & Nantwich Council meeting from 1994 when Pete Waterman first got involved.

2. The last two pages of the December 1998 'Steam Railway' article containing Pete Waterman's statement of future developments.

3. Article from the 'Crewe Chronicle' in 1999.

4. A piece detailing the contribution made by the Exeter West Group in support of Crewe Heritage Trust between 1996 and 1998.

5. The BBC Radio Stoke interview of March 14th 2012.

Most files should download reasonably quickly but, if not - be patient.

I think you will find all of the material very interesting.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

This whole thread could be construed as personal, in that most of the content is opposed to Waterman.

I have several acquaintances who were driven away from CHC in the 90's by the opinions and dogma of certain individuals within the centre, and it might be said that Churnet Valley has benefitted from the influx of dynamic preservationists disillusioned by the prevailing politics.

I was an exhibitor at the model railway exhibition in May 1995 at the centre and still recall the antipathy shown by a few individuals against this event which was succesful but was not repeated due to intransigent attitudes.

 

In my opinion one of the problesm that has dogged Crewe Heritage Centre for a long time, and still does so today, is that the volunteers and the Trust are two separate bodies. When we went there in 1991 you had Crewe Heritage Trust and the Supporters Association. Now you have Crewe Heritage Trust and 'The Friends of Crewe Heritage Centre.' The problem with this arrangement is that the Trust can make decisions which have a negative impact on the volunteers: then, because they have no real power, the only recourse disgruntled volunteers have is to vote with their feet and leave.

Crewe Heritage Trust is an 'incestuous' body where Trustees can be chosen without any reference to the volunteers, without having to face Annual General Meetings or put themselves up for re-election. I'm sure things would be much better if everyone were members of the Trust and had some say in what goes on.

I recently put forward this idea at a meeting and, surprisingly, it didn't seem to find favour. But my forty years plus involvement with railway preservation has taught me that it organisations that are constituted this way that are the successful ones.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Interesting thread this Peter, seems to be my only source of information at the moment!

 

I hope I may be allowed to give replies to two postings in this one.

To Andrew- I'm sorry that you find that communications within the Heritage Centre are not satisfactory and that you have to come here for information. Perhaps that gives weight to my argument that there should just be the one body - Crewe Heritage Trust - and that the volunteers all belong to that. It's much easier to communicate with everyone from within just one organisation.

To Martin I say - I think you are right. Although the railway preservation movement in general (and the railway press in particular) seem to have paid little attention to what is happening at Crewe, I'm sure they will start to take an interest if things get ugly. Let's hope it won't come to that.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group