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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    We thought that about the Patriot. But then extra costs come in, especially if you are using paid staff to work on the loco, which the clan does seem to be doing, and we will have gone over the 4 million pounds mark as a "project". Remember you have to add in all the additional costs of production of magazines, accountants, advertising, sales stock, postage etc etc, and over 10-20 years this can add up to tens of not hundreds of thousands. If you get to the point of have 1000+ members then it can easily become too much for one person to deal with and you might have to rent an office etc etc. So will the clan end up costing that sort of price? Probably yes. The worst thing you can do is underestimate in my opinion as if you say it's going to cost 3 million then you have got to the point of raising that sort of money and still no Locomotive then people start to question why it's not complete. Also within project costs there are things like a support coach, mainline equipment that also should be included with the cost to build a mainline Clan.
     
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  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Point of order - even with the tender, it’s still only one if you count the front bogie ;)

    There’s a degree to which you can estimate prices by such fairly crude measures: all else being equal, a loco with four driving wheel sets will cost more than one with three; three cylinders will cost more than two etc. But beyond that, there are different models being formed as to the balance between how much of the construction is done by volunteers, how much by paid staff of your own organisation and how much by external contractors; and many other factors. So I’m not sure I’d be fully comfortable asserting a price of one loco based on the reported price of another in more than very high-level terms. Not least because project speed also has an impact: you might be able to build a loco in 15 years at £100k per year but couldn’t build the same loco in 30 years at £50k per year.

    Tom
     
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  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    For Goodness Sake!! Remember all that debate we had about sexism a few years ago! And dont forget its now an offence to take a photo
     
  4. 5944

    5944 Well-Known Member

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    You can't take a photo a loaf of bread any more?!
     
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  5. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    I think you are being positive. On the 4-4-0s, I think the County is a definite one which will succeed, quite a lot of existing major components and seems to be making decent progress. The E1 I am also confident of, being done by an established group with a proven track record with Beachy Head. The GCR one is also promising, again several existing parts and progress with the frames. The LNWR George, actually my favourite of them, is making slow but steady progress and is a bit more long term, but I think that will ultimately get there too. This leaves the GER Claud, which doesn't seem to be getting very far, although it does have a bit more staying power than others which were just a website and drawings. I personally can't see this one happening but would like to be proved wrong. The Highland Ben Alder is too new to comment on.

    Have I missed any?
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    In this particular case, not too much should be read into the rate of progress. Slow? Perhaps, but steady .... and more importantly .... to consistently high quality. The team behind the Claud admit to being young (too young to remember steam on the big railway), with all the family and career commitments, plus the whole 'learning on the job' - from the ground up - which that implies.

    Frustrating? Well, for those of us denying we're worried about that inevitable 'second foot in the grave' .... sure, but if our collective obsession is to enjoy a long term future (i.e. well after many of us are worm food*), this is precisely the sort of project which is going to ensure it does, which is why this old goat finds the whole Claud project extemely uplifting.

    *This shouldn't be seen as an excuse for not bunging a few quid their way! :)
     
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  7. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    I want the claud group to succeed and prove me wrong. Agree, it's good to see young people getting involved in things like this.
     
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  8. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    But the other point is that there is no such thing as stuffed and mounted. And to claim that there is and that the locomotives in question have somehow been gutted and destroyed is a considerable insult to their custodians. Its also faintly ridiculous to claim that a locomotive at the NRM, with its immense footfall, is somehow shut away, and a locomotive in a dark visitor prohibited shed or on a distant headshunt isn't.
     
  9. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    I just prefer to see them running, doing what they were intended to, rather than silent and dead. Is that OK?

    Just an opinion that's all
     
  10. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Whilst in principal most of us here would wholeheartedly agree with you. There are those locomotives out there, that, for a variety of reasons are beyond practical restoration/overhaul, without major replacement of parts. Making them pretty well new build machines IMO. For instance the Seven Valley were going to overhaul the LNWR 2-2-2 Cornwall for the Liverpool & Manchester 150 do back in 1980, for some reason the CME/engineer in charge of said overhaul felt uneasy over the boiler report, so [with the NRM's blessing, as owners] had a second opinion/report done. The second boiler inspector knocked a nice little hole through the inner copper firebox end of overhaul before it started....... Equally look at Locomotion and Derwent at the "Head of Steam[?]" museum at Darlington North Road. As a pair of complete machines, way way beyond overhaul to running order.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  11. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

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    Stuffed & Mounted mmmmm, conjures up all sorts things really. :cool:
     
  12. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Yes I've heard that about Cornwall. Agree on locos of extreme antiquity such as the examples of Derwent and locomotion quoted, neither would be of any practical use even if runners anyway but I feel that there are quite a good number which are capable of being returned to steam and doing a job on heritage lines
     
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  13. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    I submit the discussion about whether everything should be steamed is a separate one.

    I'm decrying the use of the exceedingly pejorative phrase "stuffed and mounted" for locomotives that are not in any sense stuffed and mounted, and in most cases would be quite capable of moving under their own power were it not for conservation, safety and maintenance considerations.
     
  14. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Yeah, like whatever. Can we leave out the stuffed bit and just leave mounted, as in on a display plinth then?
    I was involved in the rescue and restoration of 45337 from Barry and when we started on it it was a rusty hulk, everything which wasn't rotted or damaged or covered in scale was missing. What I totally fail to get is that with taking a museum loco you have a massive head start in that it's complete and not full of rust

    I think what's been done with the T3 is brilliant and I'd like to see a few more being dealt with in this way.

    It's obvious that there is a difference of opinion here, so I'm not going to say any more on this topic
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  15. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    So......................

    We clearly have the capacity to build new loco's, & some of those 'stuffed & mounted' such as the Adams Radial Tank would require significant work to get them back into service which would involve removing a lot of original material.

    We do however have a lot of unrestored/poor condition but original coaches. While we might like to see a loco of a particular type, at the end of the day the bit of the train that you get really up close & personal to is the carriage you are riding in. At the end of the day I would far rather see original, historic coaches returned to service or at least placed undercover so that they have a future rather than build new locos that we can do at any time in the future
     
  16. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Since when's so heartfelt a plea ever stopped us lot digressing, Jim?! :)
     
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  17. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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  18. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    A new round up of new build news has been published by New Build Steam: https://newbuildsteam.com/2019/10/13/news-round-up-3-2019/

    Unfortunately the editor/webmaster of the new build steam website has announced that there will be only one more round up edition in December as he has decided to stop publication.

    Keith
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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  20. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    This is certainly one I'd like to see succeed. In fact I am rooting for all the LNER new builds. The preservation scene needs more Eastern types.
     

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