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D6332 NBL Type 2 Extremely Heavy General Repair

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by D6332found, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Hi All, a new beginning here for D6332!
    Looking at rebuilding this from the found Power Unit. This has been rebuilt at Swindon, and is in good condition. It is well looked after by those fine lads of the Bo'ness Diesel Group.
    Whilst in pain green NBL Works 27906, the loco was tested to Edinburgh and Gretna, moved down WCML to Crewe, tested around Swindon 7/60, then allocated to Plymouth Laira for 6 months been photographed on the Cornish Riviera express(double heading), and regular Cornish branch turns. She quickly moved to Newton Abbot, and ran on lots of North & South Devon branches, the 'Withered Arm' and piloting GWR 4-6-0s over the banks. IN 1966, by now tatty, Old Oak Common quickly gave her a Warship shaped yellow panel, perhaps why they became baby warships! Rebuilt at Swindon, in Br Blue she worked the Paddington pilots, and local branch freights, including one of the last pick up freights on the Cotswold Line, seen on the Morris Cowley and Staines branches. Withdrawn and scrapped by the end of 1971, carrying a Class 22 TOPS panel(obviously never carrying 22 033). As a standby generator in Motherwell until recently, quite a 'barnfind', considering NBL diesels were infamously scrapped, D601&D6121/2 ignored at Barry.
    27007 or what's left of it has been acquired for parts donation. This will be the focus for now, and a Not For Profit Company is formed.
    The first aim is to assess feasibility of whether it can be shortened to Correct 22 length, or it will become the similar Scottish version. Theory gives way to hard engineering fact here! Then, bodywork refabrication. It is hoped to make substantial progress on this over the next year.
    Whichever, it will have authentic NBL Type 2 Power Unit, and be known as D6332.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/714087141989780/ is a link to an appreciation group.
     
  2. At the risk of metaphorically poking a hornets nest, will your reaction to people asking questions here be the same as it was on WNXX?
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Depends on how civil the manner of raising any questions I suspect
     
  4. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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  5. Tim Light

    Tim Light Member

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    Good luck with this project. It will fill a big gap if successful.

    What about the rest of the loco? Will it be completely scratchbuilt? Is there anything else you can salvage from other locos?
     
  6. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Donor loco, be the electric version because of this, but at least will be a real loco and an important gap. Think of it as a reskin/re-engine. Very difficult, but acheivable!
     
  7. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    I sense some confusion here with references to Class 22 / D6332 and Classes 21 & 29.

    The MAN engine was used in both series BUT the Class 21 locomotive had the MAN engine and GEC electrical equipment and transmission; the Class 22 had the MAN engine and Voith / NBL hydraulic transmission and Class 29 had Paxman engine and GEC electrical equipment / transmission.

    The use of your MAN engine can be the basis of either a Class 21 (electric transmission) or a Class 22 (hydraulic transmission) but your intent to call on Class 27 D5353 with its GEC electrical equipment commits you to a Class 21 locomotive and you need to both understand the difference and accept the restriction that - given your spares quoted - you can only recreate a Class 21 locomotive in original unlined green livery. Your continued references to both Classes 22 and 29 only causes confusion and weakens your case as a serious attempt at the recreation of a NBL Type 2 locomotive.

    Whilst I wish you well with your intended project I fear you need to clarify in your own mind precisely which locomotive type you are seeking to re-create before seeking external funding and support to create it.
     
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  8. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree with Fred and the connections currently had with Scotland would suggest a class 21 is more likely. Does your group actually own the power unit OP?
     
  9. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Hi Fred. Own engine and donor loco for a class 21. D6109 carried blue with original power unit. Its a class 21 all the way but if can obtain a Ventura as a spare may be possible to swap when repaid are needed. Thought would keep the number D6332!
     
  10. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    is this a wind up?
     
  11. Tim Light

    Tim Light Member

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    Don't see the sense of using that number. Why not one of the D61xx series?
     
  12. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Hmm perhaps. D6109 as it carried the other liveries, and started with German louvres. Sure adding 2 tone green between repaints for a while won't cause too much outcry!
     
  13. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    what happened to the old group on Facebook?
     
  14. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    If this project is "a Class 21 all the way" then you MUST allocate a D61xx series number to the finished loco; the use of D6332 would damage your credibility as a serious project leader and the support would vanish quicker than a snowflake in Saudi Arabia. Similarly the use of a Paxman Ventura "as a spare" destroys credibility with any potential supporter hence my comment in previous posting that you need to be clear in your own mind what you have, what that allows you to do and how you present that potential project to potential supporters. At the moment it appears as a "What if ... " project that is based on the combined resources of a NBL / MAN engine and a derelict Class 27 diesel-electric locomotive which I fear is not enough to attract much support.

    The website you link to suggests that the NBL / MAN designs were "successful" to a degree but reports from the time suggest otherwise. I refer you, in particular, to The Diesel Impact on British Rail by R.E.L. Tufnell ( ISBN 0 85298 438 3 published 1979 by Mechanical Engineering Publications) where the history of both the engine and the company are dealt with. Contemporary reports in both the enthusiast press and BR papers also note that BR sought to eliminate the NBL designs from future orders but I understand that political pressure was applied to rescind that decision given the size of the company and the risk of high unemployment - a fear realised when the company was forced into liquidation during the early 1960s.

    This rewriting of history to suggest that the Class 21 / 22 locomotives were a success is another factor which detracts from your proposed project as any inaccurate information in any part of your prospectus will, by default, cast doubt on other parts of your prospectus to the detriment of the project as a whole. I can do you no better favour that advise that you clarify in your mind what you seek to achieve, provide a honest prospectus with relevant costings and project plans then publish it as part of an appeal for funding from interested parties.
     
  15. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    again I agree with Fred. What you would end up with is a butchered Class 27 made into a Class 21 lookalike. There seemed to be a fair bit of support for a genuine replica class 22, has this been just thrown away.?
     
  16. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Still going apparently... http://project22society.co.uk/


    Keith
     
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  17. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    I can't get my head round this...are there two groups?
     
  18. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Not asking for money. Donate away to Project 22, they need a few million. Good luck to them.
    21 will be a nice comparison with the unsuccessful P2 Aberdeen line loco rebuild. Just raisingawareness. and creating interest. Sorry Fred may have been overly sympathetic all NBLs were failures along with many others. But this is preservation and the chance to hear a MAN engine in a loco. I don't care if some don't like it, its for those who will.
     
  19. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    it isn't Preservation, it's creating a Frankenstein Monster.
     
  20. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Anyone from the GWR mentioning the F word? 61XX like 47XX.
     

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