If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Dartmouth Steam Railway General Discusssion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by TorbayTrains, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Newport (South Wales)
    Well let's face it Dartmouth operated for 35 years with unsuitable locomotives for the most part.

    Only now have they a fleet required for their requirements - 5239, 7827, 75014, 4277, 2253 & 4110 (4555 is not suitable).
     
  2. MattA

    MattA Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    303
    Location:
    82F
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I do wonder if L94 last year was something of a "last hurrah" for the days of smaller locos being worked incredibly hard on the line?
     
  3. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    842
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Why is it perhaps that the DSR has taken so long (45 years or so) to reach a point of having an entirely suitable fleet? I know it would have started with the branch line engines already purchased and suitable for the Totnes - Buckfastleigh branch, but it perhaps surprises me that they didn't purchase more larger GWR locos from Barry. There would have been plenty of Halls, 28s and the like available for them. Was it just finances that stopped them looking to expand the fleet or was it pure stubbornness and a desire to use the stuff they already had?
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Probably because they are run as a business.
     
  5. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    824
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Have passenger numbers and train lengths increased in more recent times? Could it be that smaller locos were more suitable at one time but not any more?
     
  6. RA & FC

    RA & FC Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    357
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gogledd Cymru
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Or is it perhaps that using locos with power to spare is better than using smaller ones at their absolute limit?
     
    lil Bear and jnc like this.
  7. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    842
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If anything I'd suggest running a railway as a business would lead to a decision to invest in appropriate tools earlier than a heritage railway which is running a tourist attraction, relying more on a volunteer workforce and donations and therefore would be more likely to simply use what is available

    Possibly. But the DSR has always had steep gradients, so there has always been a need for locos with a certain amount of grunt just to get trains up the climb. I'd suggest with locos like 6435 4 coaches would be getting close to stretching it.
    It's not just power either, it's also water capacity. As far as I am aware the only water tower on the route is at Paington (although please correct me if I'm wrong). Asking a loco like 4555 or 6435 with only about 1000 gallons of water in the tanks to take 7 fully laden coaches over a steeply graded 7 mile line, even if you can coast half the journey, is, I would imagine, running things a little tight with tank levels. Admittedly crews would probably therefore have to be trained and become more competent than at some other railways at running economically, but it's still a bit of a risk, especially if something were to go wrong or there were to be a delay to the service or whatever.
     
    JBTEvans and jnc like this.
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    All this sounds too much like W.I.B.N.
     
  9. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    842
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    In what way? It's pure practicality. As a fireman I would much rather work on the DSR with a loco like 5239 or 7827 which has more power and more water capacity in reserve than use a little loco like 4555 or 6435 which is constantly at its limit (even though it would sound epic) and where you're constantly aware that you've got less wiggle room before you need to top the tank up. The accounts and engineering departments will be happier too because a loco worked closer to its limit will develop more wear and tear, requiring more time in the workshop being fixed and more money being spent on it when it could instead be chalking up more miles and bringing in cash rather than sucking it in.
    I would also make a point that if you are going to brand talking about using larger locomotives to run a service for which they are more suited than small locos as 'WIBN', then one could just as easily paint a scenario of a railway switching to smaller locomotives to run a service for which larger locomotives are a little excessive with the same brush...
     
    JBTEvans and jnc like this.
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The DSR has acquired a sensibly sized locomotive (4110) and despatched it promptly to a workshop (Cranmore) which has acquired an excellent reputation for restoration from Barry Island condition. As I said, businesslike rather than WIBNesque
     
  11. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    824
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Perhaps a bit of big chufferitis too.
     
    jnc likes this.
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    You said it!
     
  13. James Ipswich

    James Ipswich New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    12
    Always taken an interest in the railway as my gran used to live in Brixham so family holidays were also spent down here.

    I was only young in early 90’s but I always remember the station at Paignton & kingswear always said trains “Easter to October” majority of the year was a standard green timetable I can only remember the summer trains then having 6/7 max carriages. So 4555 4558 were fine to use most of the year and again if my memory serves me right the two train service was hauled by 7827 and 5239 even the Hall that is now as SDR.

    The last time two times I have visited one late September they had the standard service and it had 11 carriages as there were 2 coach trips turning up. The last visit was an October 2 years ago even then the train was packed and had 9 coaches on the first service out.

    I think the railway has moved with the times, more and more people now do staycations in the UK there is a demand all year round mean larger locos. I love a GWR locomotive but it’s good that the fleet has been varied with 2253 & the 75014.

    It’s also good to see that other railways ESR for example overhauling the locomotives as I assume the staff have very little time these days to compete them with a full timetable.

    Final thoughts I would expect 4555 will be sent on a longer term loan? Living in Leicestershire be nice to see it either at Ruddington or The Battlefield line. Which I think would be suitable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    824
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think I read somewhere that 4555 will go to ESR for 2 years. Not sure if that’s still true or not.

    What is the logic in overhauling 4555 and loaning it out though? Would it not be better to sell it and concentrate resources on the larger locos instead?
     
  15. James Ipswich

    James Ipswich New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    12
    I don’t know how much it costs to overhaul something like 4555? Vs loan fees.

    I would make sense going to ESR as they now have a good working relationship


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    824
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I never thought it was a very profitable exercise. Loco owning groups always seem to have to raise additional funds for each overhaul, in addition to the hire fees they have accumulated.

    However if 4555 is done by DSR staff, and there are no major problems with it, then perhaps it’s worthwhile for them.
     
  17. James Ipswich

    James Ipswich New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    12
    In an ideal world you would swap it for a larger engine, I expect but no one lives in an ideal world!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,010
    Likes Received:
    2,019
    Restoring a loco not big enough to work your services sounds a bit WIBN. Little chufferitis perhaps?

    Jon
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  19. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Occupation:
    Solicitor
    Location:
    South Wales
    unless trains are 8 carriages long and packed to the rafters from January to December then having a small prairie on the shoulders of the season would probably be quite useful...


    regards

    Matt
     
    paulhitch likes this.
  20. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,010
    Likes Received:
    2,019
    Yes, and there will always be a hire market for a 45XX in peak, but then the large locos you need for the peak might get only a couple of months of service a year .

    Jon
     

Share This Page