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De-streamlined A4's

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 26D_M, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong - love the C38s! But streamlining in the case of the LNER was a genuine desire to reduce horsepower required at higher speeds. The smoke deflection part of the design was not entirely accidental however. It is true the chimney "thumbprint" was added to the model in the wind tunnel.

    However the bit that actually makes the smoke lift up and away is the bugatti front end and the complex curves around the smokebox. If you look at the A4 head on you realise just what a complex shape it is. Far more complex than the LMS equivalent (which in absolute fairness, was still a good solution to the "streamlined" problem - but approached from a different perspective).

    Totally agree. One can state however that it is integral to the design. It's not just an A3 with a casing on top - it's far more complex than that. It really is a case of perfecting a design over a fifteen year period.
     
  2. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

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    Most early attempts at streamlining were a 1930s attempt to make trains look modern by using smooth fairings to cover up plumbing and ancillaries. From an operating point of view, the extra weight would outweigh any saving from reduced drag at high speed. And maintenance would be less straightforward. However, the streamlined era captured the public imagination at the time, and probably brought commercial benefits that justified the expense.

    Interesting that in the 21st century we are in a new streamlined era. This time everyday speeds are high enough to make it worthwhile, and it has become the norm for high-speed rail. There is no extra weight because the streamlining is an integral feature of the bodyshell. Ever since the HST was introduced, I think the public has come to expect sleek, stylish designs for express trains.
     
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  3. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    I think the other point about the A4, even compared to the Coronations, is that the design just looks right.
     
  4. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Agreed, but I've always felt they look better with a double chimney and no valances.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    I prefer the garter blue with valances, but both look superb.
     
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  6. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

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    Agreed. To my eye, the LMS engines looked bulky and overblown, with the streamlining looking a definite afterthought; the horizontal lines were needed to disguise that bulk.

    For me, the A4 looks like a machine where God guided Gresley's hand when he designed it; it is proportionally perfect in every way.
     
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  7. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    I actually agree on the LMS streamlining, the Duchesses looked superb without it, and when fitted with smoke deflectors
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The ultimate A4 IMO is as built in 1935. I think the "silver" livery is simply stunning.
     
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  9. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

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    Complete with recessed coupling hook? It'd be nice to see Bittern emerge as Silver Link... (or Silver King, for those who have/had the model :))
     
  10. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Nah....'Silver Fox' in green as 60017 :Updated:
     
  11. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

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    You're just reminiscing about the British Transport Film... ;)

    No, no more BR Green please, it's boring. Let's have experimental Purple!
     
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  12. goldfish

    goldfish Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe once Jeremy H has got his rake of Mk3s he could be encouraged to out-shop them in silver as well. Could make a reasonable facsimile of the original train with a bit of imagination and maybe squinting at it a bit…

    Simon
     
  13. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree about the valances, IMO they just look better.
     
  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

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    This is my favourite version of the A4s.

    [​IMG]

    Shows off the red wheels and the valve gear so much better. There's a half and half version that Thompson experimented with:

    [​IMG]

    Which to my mind, is possibly what should have been adopted. It followed the P2 style in a way. This was only adopted on this locomotive and soon after the front valance was cut away, as were all of the A4s eventually, during the second world war.
     
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  15. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Oh, is he getting some?

    Sawdust.
     
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  16. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

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    This suggests a crowd-funding project - could the RHDR be persuaded to modify one of its Pacifics (in the last year or two of its boiler certificate) to look like this? It would certainly be different!
     
  17. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres

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    There's only one locomotive that's ever looked good in Purple:-
    upload_2017-11-3_16-36-21.jpeg

    The magnificent GORDON.:Happy:
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    "Which to my mind, is possibly what should have been adopted. It followed the P2 style in a way. This was only adopted on this locomotive and soon after the front valance was cut away, as were all of the A4s eventually, during the second world war"

    Agree, this doesn't look half bad, and would look even better on a double chimney example
    Favourite colour scheme for me is the Black and LNER Green, which again would suit the 'semi' scheme above and hasn't been seen in preservation.
    Lots of saving up for me to own one of these im afraid....
     
  19. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

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    Now... with the black as above, or where it extended back towards the back of the chimney?

    Would be nice to see LNER green livery on an A4 - I was lucky enough to see Green Arrow both in LNER and BR guises.

    Pleeeease Mr. Hosking, sir....!
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Think it was as above, black valences lined in red, with green wheels... Not aware that Mr H is looking at MK'3s. However the MK2'S that are coming out look fabulous 'bludncustard'.
    and together with an Apple green Bittern and Blue Peter. urh...... think I need to lie down....
     

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