If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

De-streamlined A4's

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 26D_M, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. Johnme101

    Johnme101 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stowmarket
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    BR green is not boring and it looks great on A4s. Plus BR green looks good on any express locomotive.
     
    60017 likes this.
  2. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Children's Author, Railway Writer, Film Maker
    Location:
    Sidcup, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No. Bloody no!

    There’s already a BR green A4. She’s off to static display.

    Our working A4s absolutely MUST have an example in garter blue as intended. It’s the best livery and the most iconic.

    To not have any working A4s in garter blue at any time is an obscene idea.

    Personally speaking of course.
     
  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,419
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    60007 will be blue, albeit the more attractive BR iteration, so it would provide variety if 19 returned to green.
    Whilst I do recognise the A4 as an iconic design classic, I personally do not find it as handsome as the 'conventional' LNER design pacifics.
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    25,518
    Likes Received:
    8,453
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Gets my vote.
     
  5. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    372
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Purely based on photographic evidence, I don't think LNER lined green suited the A4s as well as blue or grey. I think the lining broke up the clean lines of the loco, especially the boiler bands.

    In theory the same is true of the BR lined green and blue versions, but somehow it worked better than Apple Green.
    w641.JPG

    4482x001.JPG
     
  6. Johnme101

    Johnme101 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stowmarket
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I never said Bittern should be in BR green and I was just replying to a comment on BR green. That I like BR green on A4s and Bittern did wear both BR green and LNER Garter blue during her most recent ticket. I like A4s in LNER Garter and BR express blue too. Exactly Union Of South Africa won't be running after 2019 and then there no BR green A4 running. Some time ago I did hear a rumor Bittern might return in BR green and BR green, BR blue and LNER garter blue. Are equally beautiful on A4s and I would't say LNER garter blue is the most iconic. As it depends on what people grow up with LNER or BR. There is displayed A4s in LNER garter blue which show off the livery nicely and Dwight D Eisenhower is only other A4 in BR green.
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As @S.A.C. Martin has said, there's already a B. R. Green one - 60009. I would rather one of the two to remain in traffic was turned out in black with N E on the tender than B. R. Green.

    For far too long the livery choices have been dictated by those who wish to recapture memories of their childhood where steam is concerned. For those of us who have no such memories, other liveries should certainly be explored. And as yet, no A4 in preservation has worn LNER Green, so maybe its time has come? It might even appease the detractors of 60103's current livery (which I prefer to LNER Green!) ;)

    Or... given my admiration of the '1948' style as exemplified beautifully by 60163 and 34081 - how about one of the A4s returning in Garter Blue with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender and bearing E7/E19 on the cabside...?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oh yes... I saw some of those b&c Mk. 2s on the Blue Peter they did a few months ago, when they visited 60532 at Crewe. They did look rather spiffing...
     
  9. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Interesting. A friend of mine shares a similar view in that he thinks the ultimate expression of Gresley's aesthetic design is the A1. I am very partial to the V2 :)
     
  10. ross

    ross New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I could never decide why I didn't quite like Mallard's look. Garter blue is stunning, and B&W photos with valences were a well balanced look, but there was something not quite right about Mallard. When Bittern was tuned out with valences she looked perfect, all that I'd thought an A4 should be. The difference? The "whitewall tyres" look that the NRM seems so fond of. Those shiny rim wheels just don't look right, and as I understand it, are not how the A4's were ever tuned out before the war.

    BTW James, I meant kiwi as in kiwi. The worlds most un-aerodynamic flightless bird.
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.
  11. goldfish

    goldfish Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,595
    Likes Received:
    3,021
    Get the valances back on 60007, a splash of paint and the NYMR teak set, amazing.

    Simon
     
    blackfour likes this.
  12. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,419
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Its a curious thing but I think the only existing loco type unsuited to apple green would be the A4, its a universally smart loco livery otherwise. Perhaps emphasising the unique proportions of the A4? For me its the A3 with LNER tender in apple green, single chimney - 4472 as was! Partial to the Peppercorn pacifics too though.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  13. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    297
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    NE wartime black. Or the LNER green. Why? Because its different and we have seen all the others already.

    Failing that. Silver Link please. Or Silver Fox. Yes, the Fox would be better. Conjures up more immagination from those platform side of a hulking great silver streak.
     
    ross, 60017, blackfour and 2 others like this.
  14. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If I could do an "ultra-like" to your post, I would.

    Although I'd suggest Quicksilver. ;)
     
  15. Johnme101

    Johnme101 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stowmarket
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Once 60009 is withdraw from service and then there would no BR green A4 running. Plus there is nothing wrong with locomotives with wearing multiple liverys during and a part of preservation will always be about recreating memories of steam days. As photo charter and steam galas. Have themes from specific eras and memories are a big part of what makes us human. Heritages railways do 40s and 60s events. Which allow visitors to step back in time and that is part of what makes preservation's. Some heritage lines have stations that recreate in different eras of the railway and BR express blue suits 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley very well. At the end of the day it is the owner that decides what the livery the locomotives wear and there a was a time in preservation when only Mallard only was in LNER garter blue. Bittern, Union Of South Africa, Dwight D Eisenhower and Dominion of Canada were all in BR green at the same time and then both Bittern Dominion of Canada got LNER garter blue. So I don't how now people complaining about liverys now when it was a lot worse before and with 60009 going out of traffic. Just make people happy have a new build A4 and so then people could paint it in any livery.
     
  16. goldfish

    goldfish Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,595
    Likes Received:
    3,021
    Oh, maybe it was the A1SLT? Someone was, I’m sure.

    Simon
     
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes it's the A1SLT that are planning on doing a rake of MK3s. Mr Hosking is acquiring Mk1s.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
    goldfish likes this.
  18. 2392

    2392 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    140
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Bear in mind, once Gresley and his team had been given the go ahead to design both the locomotives and train. After running a pair of test trains, the first using 4472 Flying Scotsman [at the behest of the publicity departmant] with 4 teaks on a Kings+, Leeds return [with the first authenticated 100mph], the second with 2750 Papyrus with 7 teaks on a Kings+,Newcastle return [breaking 4472s record], which was where the first streamlined journey was to run [the Silver Jubilee]. They set to designing the new locomotives, these new locomotive were streamlined both inside and out. They ironed out the kinks in the various steam passages to/from the boilers to cylinders and exhaust. This was one of the first times that a "windtunnel" was used to aid with the aerodinamics of how the loco/train moved through the air. Highlighting the resistance of the atmosphere and how to reduce said resistance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    S.A.C. Martin and Sawdust like this.
  19. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,107
    Likes Received:
    1,801
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    Dion't forget the influence of Andre Chapelon especially with his support regarding the streamlining of the internal steam passages; rarely noted but extremely valuable contribution that owed much to the friendship between Chapelon and Gresley.
     
    jnc likes this.
  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    1,355
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    @Johnme101 kindly keep your distance from "Gladstone" Sir! ;)
     
    andrewshimmin and Bluenosejohn like this.

Share This Page