De-streamlined A4's

Or just "typical NatPres guff" for short.

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I think you'll find the groups like the DTG, DEPG and WLA got there first, it was the withdrawal of the Diesel Hydralics that spurred people like the late Colin Massingham into action to preserve something 'Modern'.

 

Reasonable in principle, given the way thread drift evolves, trickier in practice. Look at this thread lately..... A4's (on topic)>A4 Performance considerations (slacking off, but relevant)>A4 vs Stanier 8P (steady now!)>Compare ERvsLMR express reqts (still sort of relevant)>Evolution of 8P motive power (drifting)>Everything from 2 dozen or more posts ago (Woo-hooo! We have another logical drift sequence!!).

It's not as though all the drifting posts (mine included!) even need shifting to the same thread. Given that, the only thing which actually surprises me is that any of our moderators have still got any hair left .... that and only a couple of posts in all that lot drifted off to the B17/5's !!

 

Rename it "A good-natured if inconclusive meander through various issues in railway preservation"

 

By extension this indicates we also require a "Less than good-natured if inconclusive meander through various issues in railway preservation" .... which should be easy enough to differentiate from "Vitriolic internecine handbagging having little if any remaining content to do with various issues in railway preservation".

I didn't take this photo. It's from "phrases.co.uk" though I'd imagine copyright resides with the Pythons.

 

For tidiness' sake we should probably also have a "Surprisingly Vicious All-Comers Livery Bunfight" thread.

 

oooh, cant wait ( yer Manky Sh!tlark)

 

True the Class 24 Helen Turner went to the NYMR in 1976. Not so much for preservation, rather as a "Thunderbird" machine due to the drought on hire from T J Thompsons Scrapyard in Stockton. At the time BR wouldn't allow diesel locomotives once sold for scrap to be re-sold for further use. Hence the hire arrangements, the Moors had a very good offer made by Thompson's to buy or return her a couple of years back as they were pulling out of the scrap business

 

I was certainly not envisaging piping hot water down a train, but something along the lines of cooling the engine with water from a tank and then passing the warm water into a boiler heated by the exhaust gases to make steam for train heating. Certainly quite possible in principle but in practice probably too complicated and/or unable to provide enough steam. Only armchair engineering!
I made the comparison with buses and cars because the waste heat from an engine powerful enough for propulsion is sufficient for heating the vehicle. However I admit that that is not entirely valid because the power to weight ratio of a train running on rails can be quite a bit lower than that of a road vehicle.

 

my memory is not infallible , but cannot recall ever seeing the Ivatts on freight duty .- and I spent a LOT of time "spotting" at Harrow .

they did seem to be the preferred power for the Royal Scot 1958/59 . they had an unforgettable sound - a deep bassy throb mmmmm

10000 would have been a far better choice for the Science museum than the shell of Deltic.

I remember seeing D1 Scafell Pike heading for Euston during its trials on the WCML . I never saw anything doing the speed she was that day .I remember noise of the unsprung wheelsets hitting the rail joints bang bang bang etc; . no surprise to see the change to CWW in the '70s

 

So .... just out of interest .... what is the protocol for thread drift? It's inevitable that it will happen? But at what point is a new thread required?

Not sure that it's fair to call it Froth or Guff, just because it's off topic. Everyone has opinions or questions that they want to discuss. That's what forums are for.

 

Isn't that just the NatPres mission statement?

 

I was more referring to the stereotypical NatPres topics of discussion of boxes on the back, WCRC and livery rather than any drift on this thread, some of which as been jolly interesting.

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The first preserved loco of any type to run on a standard gauge heritage railway just happened to be a diesel. LMS 7401 on the Middleton Railway in June 1960. Steam came next with the Bluebell.

 

Is it time for me to suddenly state that Drummond's double-singles were a brilliant idea, Gresley was rubbish, and we should have adopted 5'6'' gauge as standard anyway...?
Oh, not quite yet?
Alright, see you in a few dozen posts!

 

The initial diesel preservation was usually shunting locomotives which heritage lines found useful for ecs / pw duties but NOT for passenger work. The first honours for main-line locomotive preservation came in 1975; the preservation of D821 Greyhound by the Diesel Traction Group (funded privately by Colin Massingham) and the preservation of D7017 by the Diesel & Electric group (the first funded by public subscription). The success of these projects led to the successful preservation of later years BUT both the DTG & DEG were the pioneers whose efforts should not be overlooked or minimised.

 

Depends WHEN you were spotting at Harrow ! Prior to their move to the SR in 1953 the Derby Duo were based at Derby for St Pancras - Manchester passenger services and willesden for both passenger and freight services (being frequently used on Camden - Crewe freights including the 14:55 Camden - Crewe) but on their return to the LMR in 1955 they were more often operated on WCML passenger services including singly to Liverpool and Blackpool whilst spending much of 1956 based at Derby for St Pancras - Manchester services. By 1957 they were back at Willesden working a variety of turns including Euston - Bletchley local services, Euston - Liverpool / Blackpool and occasional turns in multiple on the Royal Scot throughout.

 

With all this discussion of the Ivatt Twins, perhaps it's time for a reminder of the project to build a sort-of replica which will look and sound the same although having partially different innards. https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/ivatt-diesel-re-creation-society.433272/

On second thoughts, can posts on that subject be moved to that thread?

 

1956-61.

the southern trio replaced them for a while .
the Ivatts seemed to be the preferred power for the Royal Scot around 1958 but I cant be sure of the dates . the Type 4s put an end to that.

they certainly worked to Liverpool etc as single units but I am not convinced they made a habit of working locals - I cant remember ever seeing them on the slow lines , which is where they would have been .that would have meant stopping at Harrow and that I would definitely remember that .


10000 spent several quite long periods dead at Willesden around 1960 ,no doubt waiting for parts . by then the Type 4s were getting a grip , and the writing was on the wall I guess . shudda "cabbed" it , but I never did.

I regret not recording more detail of workings during my time at Harrow but that never occurred to me at the time ,but I do have good memories of steams' last hurrah on the West Coast before the wires went up. I do not regret missing the depressing last years

 

I have kicked off a thread on the Ivatts' workings in the Diesel section . hopefully it will be of interest.

I had to post this pic I just found of 10000 on a freight working , at Harrow of all places !- so I will eat humble pie