If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

De-streamlined A4's

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 26D_M, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Or just "typical NatPres guff" for short. :)

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
    GWR4707, 60017 and Matt37401 like this.
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,330
    Likes Received:
    11,667
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think you'll find the groups like the DTG, DEPG and WLA got there first, it was the withdrawal of the Diesel Hydralics that spurred people like the late Colin Massingham into action to preserve something 'Modern'.
     
    Andy Williams and Sawdust like this.
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Reasonable in principle, given the way thread drift evolves, trickier in practice. Look at this thread lately..... A4's (on topic)>A4 Performance considerations (slacking off, but relevant)>A4 vs Stanier 8P (steady now!)>Compare ERvsLMR express reqts (still sort of relevant)>Evolution of 8P motive power (drifting)>Everything from 2 dozen or more posts ago (Woo-hooo! We have another logical drift sequence!!).

    It's not as though all the drifting posts (mine included!) even need shifting to the same thread. Given that, the only thing which actually surprises me is that any of our moderators have still got any hair left .... that and only a couple of posts in all that lot drifted off to the B17/5's !!
     
  4. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    9A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Rename it "A good-natured if inconclusive meander through various issues in railway preservation"
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    By extension this indicates we also require a "Less than good-natured if inconclusive meander through various issues in railway preservation" .... which should be easy enough to differentiate from "Vitriolic internecine handbagging having little if any remaining content to do with various issues in railway preservation".
    pearl-harbor.jpg.cf.jpg
    I didn't take this photo. It's from "phrases.co.uk" though I'd imagine copyright resides with the Pythons.
     
  6. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    9A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    For tidiness' sake we should probably also have a "Surprisingly Vicious All-Comers Livery Bunfight" thread.
     
  7. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    oooh, cant wait ( yer Manky Sh!tlark)
     
  8. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,902
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    True the Class 24 Helen Turner went to the NYMR in 1976. Not so much for preservation, rather as a "Thunderbird" machine due to the drought on hire from T J Thompsons Scrapyard in Stockton. At the time BR wouldn't allow diesel locomotives once sold for scrap to be re-sold for further use. Hence the hire arrangements, the Moors had a very good offer made by Thompson's to buy or return her a couple of years back as they were pulling out of the scrap business
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    I was certainly not envisaging piping hot water down a train, but something along the lines of cooling the engine with water from a tank and then passing the warm water into a boiler heated by the exhaust gases to make steam for train heating. Certainly quite possible in principle but in practice probably too complicated and/or unable to provide enough steam. Only armchair engineering!
    I made the comparison with buses and cars because the waste heat from an engine powerful enough for propulsion is sufficient for heating the vehicle. However I admit that that is not entirely valid because the power to weight ratio of a train running on rails can be quite a bit lower than that of a road vehicle.
     
  10. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    my memory is not infallible , but cannot recall ever seeing the Ivatts on freight duty .- and I spent a LOT of time "spotting" at Harrow .

    they did seem to be the preferred power for the Royal Scot 1958/59 . they had an unforgettable sound - a deep bassy throb mmmmm

    10000 would have been a far better choice for the Science museum than the shell of Deltic.

    I remember seeing D1 Scafell Pike heading for Euston during its trials on the WCML . I never saw anything doing the speed she was that day .I remember noise of the unsprung wheelsets hitting the rail joints bang bang bang etc; . no surprise to see the change to CWW in the '70s
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    Bluenosejohn and Matt37401 like this.
  11. Tim Light

    Tim Light Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes Received:
    608
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So .... just out of interest .... what is the protocol for thread drift? It's inevitable that it will happen? But at what point is a new thread required?

    Not sure that it's fair to call it Froth or Guff, just because it's off topic. Everyone has opinions or questions that they want to discuss. That's what forums are for.
     
  12. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Isn't that just the NatPres mission statement?
     
    Matt37401 likes this.
  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was more referring to the stereotypical NatPres topics of discussion of boxes on the back, WCRC and livery rather than any drift on this thread, some of which as been jolly interesting.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The first preserved loco of any type to run on a standard gauge heritage railway just happened to be a diesel. LMS 7401 on the Middleton Railway in June 1960. Steam came next with the Bluebell.
     
    oddsocks, Bluenosejohn, 30854 and 2 others like this.
  15. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is it time for me to suddenly state that Drummond's double-singles were a brilliant idea, Gresley was rubbish, and we should have adopted 5'6'' gauge as standard anyway...?
    Oh, not quite yet?
    Alright, see you in a few dozen posts!
     
    MellishR, Bluenosejohn and Matt37401 like this.
  16. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    The initial diesel preservation was usually shunting locomotives which heritage lines found useful for ecs / pw duties but NOT for passenger work. The first honours for main-line locomotive preservation came in 1975; the preservation of D821 Greyhound by the Diesel Traction Group (funded privately by Colin Massingham) and the preservation of D7017 by the Diesel & Electric group (the first funded by public subscription). The success of these projects led to the successful preservation of later years BUT both the DTG & DEG were the pioneers whose efforts should not be overlooked or minimised.
     
    The Green Howards likes this.
  17. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    Depends WHEN you were spotting at Harrow ! Prior to their move to the SR in 1953 the Derby Duo were based at Derby for St Pancras - Manchester passenger services and willesden for both passenger and freight services (being frequently used on Camden - Crewe freights including the 14:55 Camden - Crewe) but on their return to the LMR in 1955 they were more often operated on WCML passenger services including singly to Liverpool and Blackpool whilst spending much of 1956 based at Derby for St Pancras - Manchester services. By 1957 they were back at Willesden working a variety of turns including Euston - Bletchley local services, Euston - Liverpool / Blackpool and occasional turns in multiple on the Royal Scot throughout.
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,165
  19. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    1956-61.

    the southern trio replaced them for a while .
    the Ivatts seemed to be the preferred power for the Royal Scot around 1958 but I cant be sure of the dates . the Type 4s put an end to that.

    they certainly worked to Liverpool etc as single units but I am not convinced they made a habit of working locals - I cant remember ever seeing them on the slow lines , which is where they would have been .that would have meant stopping at Harrow and that I would definitely remember that .


    10000 spent several quite long periods dead at Willesden around 1960 ,no doubt waiting for parts . by then the Type 4s were getting a grip , and the writing was on the wall I guess . shudda "cabbed" it , but I never did.

    I regret not recording more detail of workings during my time at Harrow but that never occurred to me at the time ,but I do have good memories of steams' last hurrah on the West Coast before the wires went up. I do not regret missing the depressing last years
     
  20. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    8173147202_67b7c8d04f_z.jpg

    I have kicked off a thread on the Ivatts' workings in the Diesel section . hopefully it will be of interest.

    I had to post this pic I just found of 10000 on a freight working , at Harrow of all places !- so I will eat humble pie
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.

Share This Page