Diesels on steam tours

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Fair comment, I realise this BUT why was the diesel left attached for the whole trip. It could have been left at Waterloo after bringing the stock & Tornado in & then re-attached to the rear after Tornado's return. I think this is what happened at Kings Cross last week.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

I noticed that the diesel is not supposed to be attached for tonight's run. Could it be that keeping it on the back saves a path into Waterloo station (due to congestion) whereas Victoria has more spare paths available?

Regards,

Dan

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Please just let it go - you have a view which you are perfectly entitled to have but you are not going to change what generally happens. I would add, as you do not appear to have not paid to go on the trip, then I'm not sure the operator is going to value your views.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Bang on i'd say, the diesel would be detached if there was the spare path availible for it to do so, but frankly finding a path in and otu of Waterloo is difficult enough without finding an additional one.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Is this a discussion about the great day that Tornado has had or maybe ????????????why a diesel was on the back.

Come on. She is out on the mainline and has been thrilling people all day. Lets get back to the discussion about Tornado now......please [-o<

FC

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

The Generator had packed up in the Blue Mk2, so the 67 had to heat the train. This was a last minute problem, I beleive, which caused some crewing problems. Although the loco had been planned to be hauled 'dead in train' due to the problem of re-coupling to the train at Waterloo on returning. The signalling is not set up at Waterloo to allow a loco to go towards a platform which has a train out foul (to long for the platform).

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Well well, perfectly valid reason for the diesel loco on the rear. Funny that.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Waynes obviously correct here chappies, the generator coach packed up around 10:30pm Friday night so there was unfortunately no other option in heating the train. Had to work yesturday so unfortunately had to miss out so appreciate all the pics and videos, certainly looked pretty good!

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

As said, it's not there for breakdowns. She has already done may miles without one.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Is this a physical problem with the track/points? I understood anything not catered for by signalling could be done 'under caution'?

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

It can be done, we turn enginners trains around at platform 19. However it is an 'unsignalled move'. This means that we can not use the position light signal to give us authority to go towards the train. So a driver needs to speak to the signalman using the Signalpost phone, then the signalman needs to set the route, advise the driver to pass the signal at danger, driver repeats message, TPWS needs to be over-ridden etc, etc. All this takes time, to much time unfortunetly. Not a problem at 0200 in the morning but Waterloo is a busy station, even on a Saturday. Plus Network rail do not wish to have loco's floating about outside the station for 10 to 15 minutes. So person in high position says, no way.
But when platform 20 is brought back into use, hopefully charters may be able to use it? things might be differant.

Wayne.

 

Re: Steam Dreams Valentine Trips with 60163 14/02/09

Interesting, cheers (and for the other reply about crews in the other thread) :smt023

 

We seem to be getting quite a few of these lately

 

deisels on steam tours, its certainly got peoples backs up, personally, its an necessary evil, shunting, releasing stock etc the modern railway is a very steam unfriendly place unlike when steam was the staple motive power i regulary see steam on the dover- ashford run and it seems to be ok to run without a box dead at the back, but thats because of the tunnels when steam came down to folkestone a deisel was a necessity , how else would they get the train back to ashford and as for running up the harbour line for tangmere to take the bank without assistance would have been stupid, imagine if the diesel had to run in another path, and it got delayed ,easy done, you would have lost the path back to london thats why deisels now are kept on the formation and dragged around all day, so that they are there when you need them it would be better if more heritage era locos were used where deisel haulage has to part of the tour , as long as they were in good enough state of repair

 

Martin Butler
Well thats just it.They don't seem to be.The East Coast job last Saturdays is proof of that.On a job that is straight forward there is no need for one at all if a generator is provided and a light engine move is included in costings of a tour.Lets get the job done properley rather than cutting corners to save money.
The Jub trip last Saturday was overloaded for the engine (12+Diesel) and accordingly there was diesel assistance at various places on route.Not satisfactory in my mind.

 

Were you on either of these two trips, if not then you have no cause to complain.
If you were, then to avoid 'cutting corners' to save money, would you be prepared to fork out say another £10 on the fare, and expect all passengers to do the same, just to save having a diesel on the back. You might, but I'll bet the vast majority would not.
Last Saturdays Jubilee trip, was the train full to justify the extra load, and if so I'm again prepared to bet that the vast majority were quite happy with the way it ran.

 

I'm never happy with a box on the back of a steam hauled train, whether I am on the train or linesiding it. But I am a purist and won't change after all these years. And I will still express my views on the subject as long as we have freedom of speech, even if some here think such views can only be expressed if you are actually a riding passenger on any train being "commented" about.

But I have to accept they sometimes need to be there, and in the modern railway that may be so increasingly.

It's something that is stopping me from making a "full scale" return to travelling behind ex SR steam locos on the main line. My problem, not that of the train promoter who loses just one ticket revenue per train.

But, sometimes, they add to the enjoyment of a day out! The extra 90 tons behind Clan Line on the Merchant Venturer on November 21st gave a gross load of 585 tons, my highest ever behind a Bulleid origin steam loco. And that wonderful re-start from Westbury and climb of Upton Scudamore bank in dreadful weather. With no effort from the box, ( I was in coach 13 out of 13). In weight terms only, that train was very close to a 17 car train from the 1960s, (not that I think there were any trains that big in those days, my longest was 14 vehicles).

And the future?

The only solution I can see would be a very limited number of routes where infrastructure investment either end and maybe along the route, (fixed watering points), makes it operationally possible to use a small number of nominated locos to haul "no box" trains.

And the chances of getting enough people together to invest in such schemes?

Zero.

And I speak from experience having once tried to raise interest and finance from a very vociferous worldwide group of enthusiasts to keep main line steam of some sort running along a superb line in South Africa.

 

Before there is any controversy, I would point out that the diesel on the back of the NYMR's Santa Specials from Grosmont to the Lealholm area is so the train can change direction without the aid of a run-round loop!

Sorry - couldn't resist the plug!

Steven

 

One thing that could be done is for Tour Promoters to make it clear that a diesel will/could be part of train in their advertising blurb. Yes, I know it doesn't mean the box will definitely be working, but it's a start. Maybe some do it already? If they don't, I suspect the way consumer protection is going they will have no choice before long. i.e a "A steam Train", must be just that, not a train with a steam loco on the front with a diesel on the back which may or may not need to work at some stage.

Yes. I realise there are logistical problems in doing this.

That wouldn't help me decide about the Tangy trip to Yeovil. I'd love to do Waterloo- Yeovil and return with a "flat top". But I guess that will be a Platform 19 job, and presumably 11 or 12 cars. So I am assuming a box is certain all day. And I would guess Tangy is going to need some help at some stage. A "modern" 12 car train with a box on the back is close to a 16 car train in 1960s money.