Diesels on steam tours

Cathedrals

David

I fully agree with your comments.

- I can give an actual example on the East Coast Mainline. Coming back from Lincoln ( already delayed due to now fault of are own), we had no diesel on the back, but were looped on a number of ocassions, and had to wait in one loop for 5 delayed service trains to pass us. We arrived back at Kings Cross 2 hours late. A lot of passengers would have missed their last train home. If we had, had a Diesel we might have got back sooner, half an hour earlier would have made all the difference.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I do actually Agree that your being short changed if the Diesel is pushing, i personally hate it too, but i can understand the operators point of view that not delaying regular FGW/SWT traffic is more of a concern than upsetting a few enthusiasts who probably amount for about 20% of your onboard passenger if not less, these TOC's will be leaning heavily on Network Rail about whether they think you should be allowed to run if you upset them too much, surely it's only sensible to get out of the way as quick as you can rather than risk future operations because you want to plod up a bank at 35MPH which would of been fine if you were in path but running mega late with trains in the blocks infront and behind is a big no no.

Charters are well down the proverbial food chain for priority on the Mainline, holding up bread and butter traffic too often will cause people to think is it worth all the hassle ?.

Also 80% or so of your passengers now will be the 'day tripper's market, having hardley any time at the destination and arriving back at the start point very late and having implications for their onward travel home is hardley likely to have them booking again in future is it ?, i don't like being pushed but i think yesturdays incident was operational sensibility than unncessary interference.

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

The logical extension of this approach is that we might as well have a dead steam loco and tow it around!

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I think promoters need to think more carefully about the choice of destination and the routes they use at this time of year.
I have been on 2 to Exeter at this time of year, one in early November with 60009, and one in late October with 30777. The one with 60009, had a Diesel following, until the driver insisited it was attached at Winchfield due to slipping. The one with 30777 without a Diesel ( until the return) got stuck on Honiton. I have been on trips to Exeter in May and September without incident.

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

All I see are apologists for the unscrupulous policies of some operators who are purposely deceiveing the buying public. I would love to see them buy any product and find something they had not bought put before them and make a good excuse for accepting it. Or would they have double standards?

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

david1984
I would just like to make this comment.I look at everything now very hard before I book.The 20% arguement should not come into it.Its the principal that should matter.Don't run one with a big load if you don't think the engine is up to it.i.e if you think that it will be doing on 35mph up a bank then the train is too heavy.
Yesterdays train did not interest me because of the following.Not sure about 19 at present,didn't like the route with that engine.Possibility of the box being on the train all day and assisting.
My thoughts proved right and with some added complications.
I have travelled on a train with 19 recently and found that it starts the day is O.K but the finishes tend to be a bit sedate.There was no box on that occasion.
Finally it seems that the steam is not the only part of the enthusiast market to suffer.I understand that UK railtours train to Scotland from the Cross ran very late yesterday and had to be terminated at Doncaster with everyone being bused home from there because of engineering posession.
So at least the Steam Dreams train got back at a reasonable time.Thats all from me at the moment.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

...so if there's a last minute change of route/loco/weather and the load is too big, even if the tour isnt specifically aimed at enthusiasts the train should be cancelled/postponed (again)/have several carriage loads of travellers removed because of the 'principles' of a handful of die-hard enthusiasts and irrespective of the vast majority who want a day out?

IMO, so long as tours arent conceived with diesel assistance in mind then its just another risk you take alongside all the other variables, such as weather and god-awful timings, that can affect charter trains.

Chris

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Christopher 125
Another youngster.You are just proving my point.It all being driven by receipts and it dosen't matter what is provided.

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

Well there is only 2 operators and they both have the same policy so if you do not agree with it you would have no main line steam.

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

As has been said countless times before, read the small print and if you don't like what you see, don't buy. Life sometimes has downs, don't expect perfection to be handed to you on a plate else you are permanently going to be disappointed.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Steam Dreams are a business operating in an extremely difficult marketplace during a recession, of course its driven by receipts! Thats how companies stay in business, and so does keeping your core customers happy instead pandering to a very small but vocal minority. They advertised a day out hauled by steam to Exeter and thats what they provided, albeit with unplanned diesel assistance.

As the alternatives would have made a lot more people a lot less happy, it seems like a perfectly sensible compromise.

Chris

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

By all accounts they provided a diesel tour with a steam mask - not what it said on the tin!

As long as they made the paying customers aware of the circumstance and reasons why it is not unreasonable as the optons were further postponement or cancellation.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Don't forget the recession works both ways, people (including myself) have less money to spend. Therefore people have to get their priorities right, so bills, food, mortgages & other essential expenses come first. Any money left for luxuries (like steam tours) has to be spent wisely. So myself & many others expect this "short supply" extra money to be used to actually get what you pay for. £70 - £100 is a lot of money to me, so I don't intend wasting it to be pushed around by a box. As I have said before, I am most surprised by the attitude by some the so called steam enthusiasts on here. Saying this, it seems a lot of companies (not just railtours) do not provide what you pay for - broadband suppliers spring to mind for one.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Are we in a minority of two?

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

Sorry lads but if Steam Dreams stuck rigidly to your priciples im pretty sure they would go bust within 18 months if not sooner, a few enthusiasts are not going to fill tours so keeping the majoirty and the TOC;s/NR happy is always going to be more of a concern, Past Time Rail has already gone bump so i woulden't knock SD too much as steam in the south would be very sparse otherwise.

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

So it's ok for them to be unprincipled then... now I understand

 

Cathedrals

...of course, but while a small minority see their money as being 'wasted' due to a largely unavoidable use of diesel assistance, the vast majority of passengers would see yet another postponement being a waste of money, especially if they have a hotel room or purchased other train tickets. They would also see their money as being wasted if the train did run but their expensive 'day out' resulted in very little time at the destination and/or an unreasonable arrival time back in London and meant bailing out early or missing their trains home.

Surely if circumstances mean you cant please everyone, then pleasing the majority of passengers who are the most easily alienated by a bad experience would seem the best way to go, wouldnt it?

Personally the substitution of an A4 would render this tour as wholly unnatractive regardless of the 37, indeed a Type 3 would actually salvage it to a certain extent(!) - however im not going to bang on about how companies shouldnt bother running trains if an A4 has to be used instead because im under no illusions that things will always go to plan and its a risk im prepared to take.

Lets be honest, preserved lines arent much better - its not unusual to visit a gala and see the timetable go haywire, loco's fail, freight/shuttle trains caped, not enough car parking and for some trains to be standing room only. Of course we moan and we grumble and hope that where they can be, lessons are learned... but unless people want boring gala's that wont pay the bills, its a price worth paying for when things do go right.

Chris

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

How many times are we going to have this argument? If tour companies advertise that a diesel will be attached and assisting at various points and the steam nuts decide thaey dont want that,which they are perfectly entitled to do, and dont book, then many more tours will be caped resulting in far fewer being run. The conditions of booking probably state that motive power is subject to availability,60019 was provided so nobody has any comeback on the tour operator. Should they have to state that an assisting loco will be provided? Perhaps people power, all the posters on here and passengers on trains might persude them to be a little more open,but dont hold your breath........
Does anybody know why the 37 was pushing so hard as per reports on here? Would West Coast/Steam Dreams comment? If the diesel is only used for moving the ECS or as today, non steam leg, then thats fair enough and 37516 was not on for ETH as its not capeable of that, was it used simply to regain time?
Its sad for steam nuts but I think a diesel on the back, well at least with West Coast, is going to be more prevelent.
Personally I dont mind, 37516 is very rateable..........

 

Re: September 5th Exeter Cathedrals Express changed again.... to 30th October!

I doubt it....

 

Re: 71000 DUKE OF GLOUCESTER ON THE V.S.O.E

Most people acknowledge that mainline steam has to pay its way, and railtour companies and operators have to make money to stay in business. To do this they have to entice non-enthusiasts onto trains with a wide variety of destinations throughout the year, and so can neither afford to turn away business when its available, or cancel trains for reasons that 90-95% of the people onboard arent particuarly bothered by. They also have to avoid delays, give a reasonable length of time at the destination, and get back to the point of origin at a sensible time.

Why do many people accept the current situation? Well just look at the innacurate historical muddle of virtually every heritage railway as an example; those who arent 'in the know' dont realise or give it any thought, and those that do are generally realistic and pragmatic enough to accept the commercial and modern day pressures of running what is, in effect, a theme park that in some cases makes much of its profit from sticking plastic faces on its engines.

Chris