Dominion of Canada and Potential Disposal Story/Rumour

Meanwhile, someone said something about Dominion of Canada possibly finding a new future? Any news on this...

 

It crossed my mind that there is an arrangement that Ian Riley maintains and operates 60103, while the NRM retains ownership.

I was wondering if a similar arrangement could be set up whereby a UK operator could maintain and operate 4489, while the Canadian Museum retains ownership. Obviously there could be substantial costs involved in repatriating and restoring 4489 to running order.

 

Keep posting Simon, you always have something of value to add to our movement !!!

 

Could not agree more, I enjoy your posts as I have always found them informative(plus I like B1,s!)
Charles B

 

Quote from a renown Internet railway mag in Canada ......." Canadian Railway Observations (CRO) So good looking ... the streamline design by Sir Nigel Gresley! As well those rumours that she is being sold are confirmed as UNTRUE! According to the Curator Peter Murphy (Whom I spoke with yesterday) SHE IS NOT FOR SALE! "

 

But we know she's not for sale. Does the curator also confirm that she will not be considered for sale during the lengthy review process? I do not think anyone here believes she is currently on the market - this thread is asking the question if she will be in a few years time. Perhaps when the realities of the state of the museums stock and its financial situation are examined in the cold light of day they may take a different view. Or they may choose to keep it. Surely that's the point of having a review which has not happened yet. This statement confirms nothing either way imho. A statement of "she is not for sale nor will she ever be" (which incidentally can be said without capital letters) would be more persuasive.

 

What I don't "get" is why the loco would be sold? It was gifted to Canada in the 1960s, its obvious destination (if it were being de-accessioned) would be the UK (ie. the country which gifted it in the first place), so I would therefore assume it would be gifted back to the UK under a similar arrangement (with UK recipient to pay shipping fees).
I may be completely off-course with my supposition, but that to me would seem to be a fair and logical arrangement.

Richard.

 

That might be true if the company that gifted the locomotive still existed and the museum was financially well off. Neither of these is the case. As others have suggested, if (and it very much is an if) the museum was looking to dispose of 4489, it would be highly irresponsible to turn down offers of 7 figures (which were reputed to exist in 2013) in favour of giving away the locomotive, given the dire need of cash. Gifting is a nice sentiment, but rare in the world of preservation these days.

 

Well, if you gifted it, wh owould you gift it to? I'm fairly sure that UK plc wouldn't either want it or know what to do with it. So, gift it to an individual? I wish they would gift it to me, then ? I could immediately re-sell it to someone who is sat waiting with his chequebook in hand to write me a seven figure sum.

 

If it was gifted to anyone, it would surely be put in the contract that it could not be resold, to avoid this scenario.

Similar to the T3 being gifted to the Swanage railway. They are not allowed to dispose of it without offering it back to the NRM first.

 

I guess in the absence of seeing the terms, none of us knows, but I certainly wouldn't assume that such a clause was in whatever deal was in the original gift, back in the 1960s. Remember, at that time, BR was selling essentially identical locos for scrap, and it's a fair bet that had the Canadians turned down the offer, the loco would simply have been scrapped along with the others - indeed, that is exactly what happened with Dominion of New Zealand. In those circumstances, why would anyone on the BR side bother to write a clause in the contract putting conditions on future disposal?

Tom

 

I wasn’t talking about BR gifting it to Canada. I was talking about any potential gifting of the loco by the Canadian museum in future.

 

One of my grandsons is fan of Mallards,even if told they were mostl likely marketing and ego tripping when built.
Family is planing of going UK and se the thing alive within a couple of years.
Coal burning steam locomotives are neither cheap to operate or evirionmental correct, so why not put batteries in tender and drive tender axles as main propulsion?
Steam pressure can be reduced dramatically and smell and noise is OK.
4 kg of battery stores 1 kWh and if we reduce water and coal to say one quarter we have about 20 tons available for 5000 kWh of sinn-free utterly superfluos railway fun.
The canadian scrappers can maybe get another usefull life?

 

I wonder if the offer of a non-working replica of Dwight D. Eisenhower and/or Dominion of Canada might be a possibility? If - as appears to be the case - there is no intention of either being steamed again over there, there doesn't seem any material objection to the idea. I've no idea what the cost of a replica would be, but I'm sure it would be a great deal less than the offer of $1,000,000 which I understand was made to the Wisconsin Railroad Museum.

 

No.

 

Whilst I quite agree Tom. Bear in mind when the late Bill Smith bought the Great Northern Tank 1247, British Railways [as was in 1959 or so] inserted a clause to the effect that if/when Bill decided to sell on, British Railways had first refusal at the same price Bill had paid. So I wonder back in '79-80 when he decided he'd had enough and donated 1247 to the N.R.M., did he offer her back to British Rail as per the original terms of the sale....

 

s/fair bet/dead cert/

 

Which is why I, and I suspect many others, cannot see any logic in it being gifted instead of being sold. Gifting with that condition is, in effect, a loan and I can't see individuals or organisations spending the sort of money required without effective ownership.

 

Kind of defeats the object really.

 

On electrified lines you may as well have something taking power from the overhead and pushing the steam loco, a bit like having an electric loco behind the tender. That would work and save having to modify the tender and fit those traction motor thingies.