Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by forty, Oct 23, 2016.
That doesn't necessarily mean that there is any money available!
At the moment the initiative is uninformed by fact. Once the facts come out, I suspect this scheme will be dropped. Government and Local Government don't have money for schemes like this but that doesn't stop local politicians from pushing their own agendas.
I wouldn't trust this government to collectively tie its laces let alone a project like this. The current transport minister is unable to go to the toilet without whistling to remember which end is which. If he woke up with his mouth closed, he'd die of suffocation.
Yes, timetables and allocations on website.
You are talking far too much sense. There will many "preservationists" who will silently mouth a hurrah when a HR is incorporated into a scheme that utilises these semi- dormant assets for the common good. Does that not seem to be the proposal from Rossendale Council?Do the study and let the results speak for themselves. It is utterly amazing how many 'experts' throw their metaphorical rocks in the roadway at the very mention of some public body attempting to revitalise underused rail lines
Nothing is impossible but the law throws a lot of those rocks in the way when you have an interoperable railway.
As ever absolute BS.
The Bahamas Loco Society had 1054 in steam at Ingrow yesterday, 18th/19th June will be a busy weekend for them with 'Bahamas' working Paddington to Worcester on the 18th too!!
Let us see the results of the Study; do you honestly believe HR are going to survive in their present format?
I can’t predict the future, but I don’t think they’ll survive if they do by listening to what your recommendations as to what those in charge of the Swanage should do.
Regarding the Lanc’s that line has several manual signal boxes and crossings that need to be staffed, how much is that going to cost?
Throw in things like massive car parks, traffic management for things like buses for a park and ride system where’s the infrastructure for that in Bury, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall?
Where I live I have Cambridge North just around the corner from me, it’s the old Chesterton PW depot, it’s a huge site, (it takes me about 7-10 minutes to cycle through it) it has massive car and bike parking facilities, it has an albeit small bus interchange facility that can be expanded (as can the car and bike parking facilities) It’s also taken about 20 odd years to get it approved and built.
Where is the space and cash to build a similar facility in the Rossendale area that will want to make people stop using their cars and use public transport, because from memory, those sites at Heywood, Bury, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall are really not suitable. for use, there is a reason why Bury Interchange was built.
I'd imagine going through a couple of council areas, Network Rail, Northern Rail amongst other organisation would put a lot of rocks in a lot of ways. Rossendale have lot their entire marbles when Bury to the centre of Manchester is already nearly 40 minutes on the tram and god knows how long and how much money it would take to get from Rawtenstall to Manchester in a reasonable time.
Ahhhh great! I knew it was under overhaul but hadn't seen if it was back in steam yet and obviously it's only a month away!
If (a big if) a scheme is progressed it is likely to be managed by Transport for Greater Manchester and not led by an individual local authority. If the strategic business case stacks up (or it is made to stack up) it is quite possible that some sort of scheme will go ahead ‘for the greater good’. TfGM has access to funding and key political figures to make things happen (although it is quite busy at the moment trying to take control of the Greater Manchester bus network).
None of the issues are insurmountable, it just depends how much cash is thrown at them! Level crossings and signalling systems can be modernised, cctv and security provided at stations, town centre buildings can be flattened and park and rides created etc etc. Balancing the best heritage aspects with modern transport requirements will be tricky, I agree that the line speed would need to be increased to attract commuter traffic from Rawtenstall, which could become a transport hub for the area.
If I was the ELR I’d be wanting to be positively involved in shaping the outcome, rather than having a solution imposed by Others.
In which case the light railway order would no longer be valid, and all locos would need TPWS and possibly OTMR, door locking on the stock, toilet waste retention tanks, etc. You can either have a heritage railway with slow speed commuter services, or a normal railway with basically mainline services like NYMR do to Whitby, and the massively increased costs and fares to pay for it.
TPWS is a legal requirement if any passenger trains run at more than 40 kmph and there is no power of exemption. This doesn't only apply to those trains but to any train running on that railway. Thus, any visiting loco would have to have TPWS fitted. AWS, GSMR and OTMR are not legal requirements and, on Network Rail, they have the ability to issue a derrogation from them. This is the case on the Esk Valley where NYMR operated locos do not have to have OTMR although derrogations from AWS and GSMR have not been given.
And that's just for locos. We haven't even considered rolling stock.
50(!) years ago just before the line closed the 10:05 from Rawtentall would get you into Bury Bolton Street for 10:22 in good time for the 10:30 leccy to Manchester Victoria, arrive 10:53. I can’t imagine any of the options likely to be considered would come anywhere near that. Progress, eh?
Maybe it's best to just leave it as it is. Irwell Vale today.
Nice to see a different take on the Irwell Vale shot..... shame about the engine......!!!!!
I agree that everything I’ve mentioned isn't insurmountable but there’s not exactly a blank cheque or everything in position to make it happen overnight is there?
I genuinely wonder which person in charge would think this one to be the vote winner to close down of a popular tourist attraction to accommodate this?
I agree, on paper it’s an attractive solution to improve commuting links but I do think TfGM might prefer to spend taxpayers cash on other priorities e.g. Metrolink extensions to Wythenshaw and Stockport. Having had another think, the ELR is partly in Rossendale Borough which is in Lancs, and partly in Bury Borough which is in TfGM’s area (and a major tourist draw for Bury), so maybe it isn’t as cut and dried about TfGM being the project sponsor!
It is difficult to square the circle about the line speed; possibly a subsidised daily commuter service could be intertwined with ELR services with diesel or battery DMUs with a change at Bury, or on an extended line eastwards to Castletown but is a sedate trundle really going to tempt folks out of their cars? If you make the service attractive by increasing the line speed, and maybe run battery tram trains to and from Manchester, it opens up an expensive can of worms as others have pointed out.
I really like visiting the ELR, it has a lot going for it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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