Ebor Flyer - A1ST and Tornado: 14/04/18

Yes The Nat pres investigation who needs ORR etc

 

Who "builds" an elephant - read in context perhaps?

 

It is absolutely NOT "melted metal", and if you are not an engineer, I would caution against ill informed speculation on things you are not qualified to comment on.

Whats worse is the blue circle,(you didn't see that did you?!)

This looks to this engineer to be AFTER the incident in question and appears to be uniform shavings of material from repeated reciprocation of failed components.

Looking at at the part that failed sitting in the four foot, two things come to mind.

First the fasteners are intact, so clearly she was fit to run, and no defects were spotted, at the FTR exam.

Second the part has clear deformation, suggesting a over-stress/fast fracture situation.
EDIT. The union link is badly twisted. Is that deep cut/indent on the LHS a design feature? Bending and an uneven fracture surface also present above that. To me it looks like an over-stress/fast fracture. Instinct says something stopped this assembly in its motion, leading to the failure. I'm going to stop speculating until we see the report.

If that is accurate, this is most likely one of those incidents that happens to all machinery. Its really important to stress this, pardon the pun!
Failures happen to all machines, even ones built with all the modern CAD/FEA etc etc. Anyone else been reading the news on the Trent 1000/B787 incidents recently.....

Things break, its a fact of life, and stream engines are no exception to that fact.

It is precisely because of this fact, that this machine be treated with the same rational evidence based approach as the other machines on the network dropping cardan shafts/brake pads/ISO containers. Machines fail, get over it.

Speculatively, I am dubious its speed related. If something led to an over-stress situation then it could have happened at any speed above dead zero and caused this.

The A1 trust and all associated parties have clearly acted with the utmost professionalism, and that is the best defence of this loco and others remaining on the network, at all speeds.

I dont see why this would drop her back to 75mph running, as there was a significant business case and risk assessment put in to making 90mph happen. One failure tearing all that work up would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

This is an unfortunate incident, after 100,000 miles of very reliable running. I look forward to the official report and to Tornado back on her home stomping ground on the ECML.

 

I think there's a few things to be slightly more concerned about rather than if the stock consists of air cons or not at the moment.

 

Calm down. I was not critising the A1 Trust in any way. I have nothing but respect and admiration for all that they have achieved. I was deeply saddened by what happened yesterday. I hope that 60163 is back where she belongs, on the ML, in the very near future.

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Well, this engineer can't tell whether it is molten white metal or shards of metal. Perhaps I need better glasses. We all like to be amateur detectives and, with the benefit of absolutely no information other than what I've read on Nat Pres, my Mars Bar is on the fault not being with the bits found in the four foot. I await the conclusions from the investigation with interest.

 

Looks like a bit of both to me.
The bit's on the left look like molten blobs that have stuck to the forked part.
The bits on the right look like scrapings.
But then, I'm not an engineer. I'm a mechanic. I keep the things that engineers design working in the real world.

 

Because it would be very interesting to know what shape the parts in the four foot were originally and gain an idea of the extent of the damage. Whilst its foolish to indulge in speculation as to why a failure happened, it would still be interesting to understand the extent of the consequent damage.

 

And now reported in The Times, quite fairly: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article...c?shareToken=a44e3f4244c4d3421d5d25c110939ab4


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And the top railway headline on BBC news website today is...

"Trains across Britain missed stops 160 times a day, figures reveal"

 

What a good idea!

 

Email just dropped into inbox:

Dear Passenger

Firstly may I take this opportunity to apologise for the disruption on the Ebor Flyer of 14th April 2018. The day did not turn out as we had planned or hoped.

Tornado came to a stop just south of Sandy with a broken combination lever. Investigations have so far revealed that this was due to the middle piston valve overheating and binding in the valve chest. The root cause is not yet fully clear, but it is likely that insufficient lubrication was an issue. Investigations continue to establish the cause of failure in the lubrication system and any contributing factors.

The locomotive has run many miles since winter maintenance with no obvious issues in this area. Whilst we have been asked if the higher speed was a factor in the failure, at present we believe it not to be. It probably occured slightly earlier in the journey than if we had been running at lower speed, but it would most likely still have happened.

We are disappointed we did not deliver you the day out we wanted and for that reason we have placed on our system a credit to the value of £125 in First Class dining and £60 in Standard class towards a future trip. Furthermore, we are looking at the option of rerunning the train in the future and will ensure all passengers on the Ebor Flyer get the first chance to book tickets.

Once again on behalf of The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust I would like to apologise for the disruption to the day.

Yours faithfully


Graeme Bunker-James
Operations Director

 

Given the circumstances, that really feels like exemplary customer service from the A1SLT - a rapid apology for disruption suffered; a clear explanation of cause as far as they can say at this point; a significant financial credit for a future booking; and first refusal on any future attempt to attempt a re-run of the same tour. It's really hard to see what more they could offer in the circumstances.

Tom

 

Shame we never had the chance to say hello. I was seated next to Shaun Emmett and it was fascinating to watch him at work. I've tried a bit of timing using the old-fashioned system of quarter-mile posts, but the modern gadgets today's timers use have turned the art into something very different.

Absolutely agree, Tom. Very impressive response from the A1SLT.

This was my reply to the e-mail (slightly edited) which sums up my thoughts about the day:-

Well, I guess that if back in 1980 when I went on my first preservation-era main line steam excursion, someone would have offered 43 miles of steam up the East Coast Main Line hauled by an A1 Pacific with a tilt at 90mph after Hitchin, passengers would have thought they were in seventh heaven!

I guess that you must have been even more gutted than us ordinary passengers. After all, this was the climax of the Tornado project - 90mph running on the line associated with the A1s. For this to be the occasion when Tornado suffered an all-too-rare mechanical failure must have been devastating.

I do hope you are able to re-run the train and although it was a very long day out for me, I'd be very happy to book on it. I do hope, however, that before you re-run it, you can complete the consultation exercise about allowing Mark 1 stock to run at 90mph with steam. Given that the catering vehicle in the formation, the support coach and the generator car were all Mark 1s, it does seem absurd that we, the passengers, were unable to travel in more historically appropriate vehicles for a steam-hauled special. I'm really none too keen to travel behind steam in air conditioned Mark 2 stock again although had Saturday's run according to plan, I would still have regarded it as a fantastic day out. Still, I appreciate that such is the nature of our crazy bureaucratic country these days.

 

Yes that's a nice gesture and I will be signing-up for any re-run of the Ebor Flyer.

I have sent my timing log to the A1ST in case it helps their investigation.

I calculate 1,470 edhp on the climb to Potters Bar, a vigorous but not exceptional 2,225 edhp accelerating from Welwyn North to Woolmer Green and say 1,300 edhp at 90 mph on the 1:330 downhill between East Road and Holme Green crossings.

Sean

 

Mods if this question is in the wrong section please move it.
The issue of Mk1's running above 75mph has been mentioned by some (and when I saw the first images I did think it was a motley looking rake). Is this a DBC "rule" or something that just applies to steam generally maybe due to longer braking distances?
Mk1's regularly run faster than 75mph behind diesels and electrics so I am a little lacking in understanding.
I assume the Bittern runs were Mk1's but did not see any of them so do not know.

 

Hopefully the statement from the A1ST will stop all the pointless speculation on the engineering reasons behind the failure - none of which was helpful.

A very rapid response from them regarding the credit for future trips - not a refund but that was hardly likely. Agree that we should draw a line here and wait for the detailed forensic report.

Incidentally the immediate speculation in the back coach on the cause of us coming to a halt near Sandy was that trespassers were a possible reason. There was a group standing by a foot crossing on the upside that looked like they might have been close to the wrong side of the fence. However, since we were all focussed on our stop watches, GPS etc no-one took much notice at that moment. In some ways I am glad that wasn't the cause as that would have been a much more difficult issue to handle than mechanical failure.

 

As this thread has seen a lot of discussion about MK1s vs MK2s , a reminder that A1ST did announce (in October 2016) that they had plans for a rake of high speed carriages (with opening Windows), OK plans change, but interesting info in 4th Oct 2016 update here: https://www.a1steam.com/2016/10/?cat=7

 

That response from the A1SLT is to be applauded.