If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Ebor Flyer - A1ST and Tornado: 14/04/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by NathanP, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    Agree that air braked makes sense. Or having vac braked rescue loco shadowing tour.

    But don't agree with latter. I wasn't on the Tangers trip with the incident at Woottoon Bassett, but IIRC the report said it passed the single yellow at 50 odd mph (it had just come up Dauntsey with 13 on) and should easily have stopped at the red, even if it had been doing 75.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  2. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That cannot be right, if that were the case I would have expected vacuum trains to have been banned on the network the same day if it was the case that the system could not operate safely within the mainline signaling system?
     
  3. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    As I said in another post there are at least two vac only coaching sets on the mainline, the SD set & the VT set. Both contain early mk2's which can't be made dual braked. So does that mean they will have to be fully converted? If that is possible & won't be cheap.
    Then you have many vac only main line steam locos, I suppose the option there is to fit through air piping. Will that be allowed though as said loco will be a "swinger" when being hauled by an air braked rescue loco?
     
  4. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,118
    Likes Received:
    7,644
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Naughty step
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Convenient signalling map grabbed from Open Train Times attached: note that south of St. Neots and Biggleswade there are ladder crossings that in theory would obviate the need for any reversing to run "wrong line" ('Plasmor' movements?) but a more traditional crossing at Sandy, where Up slow -> Up fast is on facing points as one might expect, but a reversal required to get onto the Down fast where the Ebor Flyer was stuck.
    biggleswade to st neots.PNG

    Once upon a time drivers were instructed to "proceed with caution" - i.e. slow enough to stop if an obstruction is spotted. But that was a *long* time ago.

    p.s. Any idea what the Class 9 train was? That used to be a loose-coupled code!
     
  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Class 9 may well be a class 700 working - class 9 is now used to denote workings of special note to signallers, and all Thameslink trains from 20th May will have 9... reporting numbers.
     
  6. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,118
    Likes Received:
    7,644
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Naughty step
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ah, I see. Don't you mean Class 800 though? I spotted numerous, unbranded 800 sets at Doncaster on Saturday.... 700s seem to be in active service on the GN route now, along with 387s.
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No, I meant 700 - 9J63 is actually the 13:17 Peterborough - Horsham working (RTT link is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X24499/2018/04/18/advanced)
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.
  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,118
    Likes Received:
    7,644
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Naughty step
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I stand corrected, and Peterborough to.... Horsham?! :eek:

    Is this in anticipation of Thameslink? Edit - noticed there's a 9J58 Horsham - Peterborough.
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's one of a couple of trial services ahead of the new timetable. Not a working I intend to do throughout.

    But we go off topic.
     
  10. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Note that the service information also mentions Channel Tunnel, that's a bloody roundabout route to Horsham.....
     
    BrightonBaltic likes this.
  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,731
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The mind boggles!
     
    BrightonBaltic likes this.
  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes. Weekdays only sees a limited number of trains on the Peterborough to Horsham route Cambridge to Brighton routes. The full GN Thameslink service starts in May.
     
    The Green Howards likes this.
  13. Dexter

    Dexter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    55
    But a dual braked loco on a vac train will still have the air system up and running and therefore the risk of a failure is unavoidably increased. There is simply more to go wrong.
     
  14. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,568
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    What's needed is a more reliable air pump, a few of us have kicked this around before, but never found the time (or funds) to devote to it.
     
  15. Arun Valley

    Arun Valley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The Ebor Flyer

    This trip was one l was looking forward to for quite a while: having booked it in October last year. The fact that l had noticed that the dining tickets were all sold hastened my booking and not long afterwards the tour was fully booked.

    The notification of the enforced change to the rolling stock was a little disappointing but did not give me any second thoughts about going (why would it?). After a straightforward drive to Three Bridges we caught the 06:05 to London Saint Pancreas International. Having some time to spare we had a nose around St. Pancreas before wandering across the street to Kings Cross itself. By the time we had got to the correct end of the station the train was already in with Tornado reassuringly seen at the far end.

    After time for photographs and the doors being unlocked we settled into Coach ‘F’. This was my first time behind Tornado and my first (ever) train out of Kings Cross. The report(s) above cover things from the departure to the enforced stop between Biggleswade and Sandy so there is no need to repeat. The big difference is that we are able to quote speeds in excess of the high seventies for a change!

    The ‘entertainment’ on my side of the train (driver’s) was the excavator dredging what looked to be a drainage ditch. With the aid of the zoom on my camera the man operating it was clearly taking an interest in what was going on with the train. The other thing to note was that the passengers on the trains that passed slowly by on the Slow Line Northwards looked somewhat cheesed off! I must say that there did not seem to be much ventilation as the carriage was quite stuffy.

    After we got moving again l noticed our maximum speed was 25 mph, so a rough calculation meant it would be well over an hour to cover the approximate 36 miles to Peterborough. After arriving at Peterborough l had the opportunity to speak to one of the support crew and he said that when the 90 mph was hit there was still steam being vented by the boiler so Tornado was obviously steaming (exceptionally) well.

    From Peterborough to York there was no further time loss: the stop at Doncaster ‘replacing’ the water stop at Grantham. We had planned to get some lunch in York city centre and have a good look around before visiting the Railway Museum. Due to the late arrival we only went to the NRM where we had plenty of time to see all we wanted to – even finding a couple of items in the collection of local interest for us.

    The train was in the station well in advance of the departure. The only things of note on the return journey were that it was nice to watch the sun slowly set and the man with the excavator had looked like he had finished his task. The diesel kept to the planned schedule, arriving at Kings Cross slightly early. A trip Southbound on the Victoria Line and a wait at Victoria for a late arriving train followed. On the train back south to Three Bridges we realised that we had experienced all forms of traction in one day: third rail electric, overhead electric (Thameslink Core), steam and diesel.

    It was definitely a day that Tornado made the news, however – and unfortunately - not in the manner that had been envisaged. But l can say that l have travelled at 90 mph behind a steam locomotive which is something l thought l may never have a chance to do so. I hope that the repairs to Tornado are not too onerous and that all related issues are resolved. The quick response from the A1 Trust with an explanation of what occurred and the compensation is very welcome. I do hope the tour is re-run - it deserves to be (with the Mark Is).

    I had expected to do a lot number crunching from the GPS data (mobile 'phone), but this was not to be. Here is the plot from Digswell Junction to the enforced stop.
    DigswelltoOops.jpg

    This is the plot of the entire outward journey that tells a story.
    OutwardFULL.jpg

    Finally - for what it is worth: the return journey.
    ReturnFULL.jpg

    Cheers!
    -SC- (Late as usual)
     
  16. Dexter

    Dexter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    55
    But a well maintained and regularly overhauled air pump with a working lubricator shouldn’t pose a problem.
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,065
    Likes Received:
    20,775
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    True but perhaps we should move on and stop posts on here before this thread picks up an unpleasant taste?
     
    240P15 likes this.
  18. Dexter

    Dexter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    55
    From where?
     
  19. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,330
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I know what @Big Al means.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  20. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Extra expense, though...

    Noel
     

Share This Page