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ECML Azumas

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Victor, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    We kind of peaked with the HST, didn't we?
     
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  2. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    Wait. Are you saying these will be slower than a HST and the KGX-ABZ timetable will take LONGER?
     
  3. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Not KGX-EDB, but quite possibly EDB-ABZ. They are the illegitimate offspring of an attempt by DfT to rewrite the laws of physics - rather ironic given that they will daily go through Isaac Newton’s home town.

    Performance on diesel is not the equal of the trains they are replacing, as they simply do not have the same power at rail.

    You really need to get yourself to a library and read some of Roger Ford’s columns in Modern Railways over the last decade or so to understand the full horrors of this botched procurement.

    There is a reason why many in the industry spell Hitachi with a silent “s” at the beginning.


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  4. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Yep - they never found a supply of that bionic duckweed, did they...?
     
  5. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    Are you joking? So these things are going to be outrun on the Edinburgh - Aberdeen stretch by trains that are 40 years old?
     
  6. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Correct, but they look lovely on the DfT press releases .....

    Cheers, Neil
     
  7. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

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    Conversation i overheard: a and b are full on rail nuts...

    a) What do think of the new units coming on stream

    b) the Azuma thingies ?

    a) yep, them, suppose Azuma means something aspirational in Japanese ?

    b) Built by Hitachi, so probably means 'Plastic Crap' in Japanese....
     
  8. 2392

    2392 Member

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    This is what happens when the "powers that be" close the various railway workshop [in this case] be they railway owned or independent. Back in'96 the excuse given for closing York Carriage Works for instance was, "Building and maintaining Railway Carriages is not a core business of running a Railway.":Saywhat: So where does the replacement stock come from for the existing stock when it's worn out or written off in an accident like Potters Bar or Great Heck? As it is the rest of the World is laughing all the way to the Bank when they build down to a price stock, for use in the ancestral home of modern railways. Ah! you may say What about Hitachi ? With there all singing, all dancing new plant at Newton Aycliffe, well they aren't actually building the Azumas there. They are being built out in the Far East and shipped "Flat Pack" to the U.K. for assembly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  9. 5944

    5944 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with the new

    Super
    Hitachi
    Intercity
    Trains
     
  10. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Most businesses don’t build their plant, and manage fine. Why shouldn’t railways be similar?


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  11. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Why , 35B. Because from the earliest days they ended up producing their own rolling stock fleet on account of the quality in some cases, delivery in other cases. Granted the private builders came first with Robert Stephenson & Co.

    I could in turn, turn your question round by saying; Why use the T.O.C.'s trains when we could all own our own. With the railways operated like the public high ways....
     
  12. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Okay this really isn’t my field (some may say what is?) but yesterday, looking for a cheap (and vaguely interesting) way of sheltering from the Cornish sunshine we blew £7 ea on a St Erth - Newquay return. 2hrs each way plus a 2hr refreshments break. Never been up the branch before, but that’s not why I’m here.

    On the return leg, the Par - PZ leg was announced as 9 coach train. Oooo great, an HST I thought. But it was a 5+4 pointy thing. Is that a Montizuma or whatever as well? It was nothing like as refined as the HST we had the other year on a Looe - St Ives jolly. And the seats were awful - worse than the 150 on the branch. Not only hard but too upright as well. An hour was plenty, can’t imagine Pad-PZ.

    On the other hand, they appear to tilt, so will they speed up the service on the Cornish twists and turns?


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  13. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    I think we know the answer to that, provided by the S&D. But BA don’t build their own planes, National Express don’t build their own coaches, and SNCF Don’t build their own trains. So why should the British railways?


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  14. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Azuma is the branding for the units that will work on LNER, the geriatric term is IEP or IET. Other names are available and fit with the quality of your experience in Cornwall.

    Although I think it’s possible that if you were on a train of 9 coaches in 2 units you may have had the pleasure of travelling with Cross Country. Whose units are 20 years older than IEP and knackered inside.


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  15. Platform 3

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    Yes strange really - I can't think of any public transport provider in the world which builds their own vehicles. In America, and plenty of other countries, the railways never built their own stock.

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  16. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    The Greeks used to - even the buses during the time of the Generals; they were built in the shipyards. And for a long time BR had stuff built side-by-side with private industry: Metro-Camm, Cravens, BRCW, Wickham... and that's just carriages/DMUs,
     
  17. huochemi

    huochemi Member Friend

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    Like most sweeping statements, there are exceptions. For example, the Pennsylvania RR built many of its locos at Juniata, for instance most of the K4s. However, I agree that the UK (as in most things related to locomotives), was quite untypical.
     
  18. Platform 3

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    I stand (partially) corrected.

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  19. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Definitely GWR. Shiny new and a copper-capped panto asleep on the roof. The endless announcements of the various door opening permutations to allow pax off at short platforms was staggering. Not helped by the running order being EDCBA-JHGF.


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  20. D1039

    D1039 Member

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    A number of the features are covered above. They have many powered axles and accelerate quickly in diesel mode (equivalent acceleration to a class 313 emu it is said) but that fast acceleration cuts off at quite a low speed (under 20 mph from memory). They struggle to make the 125mph top speed too. I have read that East Coast aren't at all confident on their performances on the hills north of Edinburgh.

    The ScotRail shortened HSTs, like the GWR Castle versions, will have a reduced top speed (110 mph I think) due to brake force constraints of the fewer vehicles. I'm not sure what the top speeds are north of Edinburgh and how much of an issue it would be.

    All received wisdom.

    Patrick
     
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