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ECML Azumas

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Victor, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    For anyone that's been on one, are they better than the HST or Elecra's?

    Will those seats be tolerable for the 7 hour run to Aberdeen?
     
  2. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    I was no number of bum getting off one at Grantham than I would be getting off their predecessors. That is, however, just over an hour as opposed to 7.
     
  3. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    Does anybody know what services ( times) are being operated with Azumas............Leeds-London, Mon-Fri.

    The old folk fancy a trip out and we'd like to give them a try.

    Thanks:)
     
  4. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    Does anyone have any idea if the last 125 runs for Aberdeen are booked in?

    I can imagine the last Northern Lights going north and Final KGX from Aberdeen will be busy in a similar fashion to the last of the 125 runs out of Paddington.

    The last time a 125 will traverse the length of the U.K. is something I can imagine others find appealing.
     
  5. Groks212

    Groks212 Member

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  6. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Still early yet for that.


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  7. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    If you look at times you might travel on the LNER website, it tells you which trains are booked for Azumas.


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  8. D1039

    D1039 Member

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  9. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    o_O That's confused me,:confused: some been running on Leeds/London for a few weeks now, they were in evidence yesterday............and it's August.
    Admittedly it hasn't been a full service, they've been running alongside the 91's
    The only thing I can think re The Rail Magazine announcement is they'll be running the complete half hourly service and it'll be goodbye to the 91's (and they've given good service over the years)
    Sundays on the line from Wakefield to the South is 'Pick and Mix' day, Azumas, East Midland complete HST set, East Midlands power cars with LNER coaches, a 2 x 5 car (fastened together) on XC service and ..........(bless) 2 car Pacers trying to keep out of the way.:)
     
  10. Groks212

    Groks212 Member

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    The 801 Azuma is the electric version, the Azumas currently running the Leeds to London service are the 800 bi-mode ones, electric/diesel.

    The link on my earlier post gives some idea of current Azuma services from Leeds.

    Dave B
     
  11. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Um, I though the 800/1s currently running were the EMU versions (but with a single diesel engine to maintain hotel power/allow low speed movement when the overhead is down)? Either way, they are 9 car units.

    The units to come in during September are 5 car units, which will be working in pairs to start with.
     
  12. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    You learn something new every day. They're running on the pantograph now, services were disrupted this last week because the wires were down between Wakefield and Doncaster.
    Thanks. :)
    So, where are the 800's going when the 801's show up ?
     
  13. Groks212

    Groks212 Member

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    They'll be used on the Anglo- Scottish services.

    Dave B
     
  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    According to Wikipedia, the 800/1 Azumas are bi-mode and the 801 Azumas are electric only. So to answer Victor's question, the bi-mode Azumas will be cascaded to routes that include non electrified sections such as Inverness and Aberdeen.
     
  15. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    For reasons which I suspect are to do with the fact HSTs are older, and hence expected to need to 'go' first (remember, the Class 91s/Mark 4s were not originally to be replaced but I seem to recall Hitachi made too good an offer to do so for DafT to refuse!), the bi-modes 9 cars have been built first - probably also eased testing by allowing higher speed self-propulsion without using overheads when testing electrical interference (hint - the tests initially failed!!!)

    I was very grateful of this a couple of weeks back when I combined a first journey on an Azumu with my first trips through Lincoln and Gainborough! First Class was very pleasant and I actually felt the seats had plus points over the ones used on the Mark 4s and HSTs (and sampled a Mark 4 first thing the next day just to check!)

    Questions remain about maintaining the timings that HSTs achieve when not running under the wires. For the likes of Hull, Harrogate, Middlesbrough and Sunderland, I suspect the comparatively short diesel-only stretch will see either no effect due to line-speed restrictions or faster acceleration on the section under the wires offset any time loss on diesel, but Aberdeen and Inverness could be very different.......

    Steven
     
  16. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    This is my worry. If Azumas just don't have the grunt to keep time over the Aberdeen to Edinburgh section the London journey could see no time benefits and may even get longer! Its already a full working day long!

    Will the increased acceleration away from stations mitigate the lack of power on the gradients between Aberdeen/Inverness and Edinburgh?

    EDIT. Just had a thought. There are a number of Scotrail services that are already quicker than the KGX trains between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, but could we end up in the bizarre situation where the Scotrail EX GWR HST's are better equipped to deal with this section than the brand new Azumas despite the HST's having their wings clipped to 100MPH max. With only the 4 carriages to haul the answer seems obvious.
     
  17. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    The theory is that the better acceleration will offset reduced power; unfortunately for trains that will operate past Isaac Newton's birthplace, this is theory that needs to defy the laws of physics. Performance on the GW shows that IEPs on diesel are less performant than the 2+8 IC125 formations they replace, both in all out top speed and on gradients - I've seen drivers report lower top speeds breasting Hemerdon in cl. 80x than the trains they replace.

    Still, if you let civil servants specify your trains rather than engineers or operators, what do you expect?
     
  18. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    So what you are saying is that in all likelihood an Azuma north of Edinburgh is going to be slower than the current 125's and the timetable may well be longer than it already is? Or, somewhere has to lose its KGX direct link to keep the timetable static.

    What is that word people use...Progress...?
     
  19. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Yes, I am indeed saying that the new trains will be slower once off the juice, hopefully by less than the speed gains south of Stirling or Edinburgh.
     
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  20. W.Williams

    W.Williams Member

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    This will highlight an already slightly odd situation.

    400 miles KGX-WAV will be covered in 4 hours. Average 100MPH
    130 miles WAV-ABZ will be nearly 3 hours. Average 43 MPH
     

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