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Electric steam

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by ssk2400, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    The capacity of practical OHLE would still be a limitation. Increasing boiler pressure would improve the efficiency, but nowhere near the efficiency of traction motors.
     
  2. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    Come to think of it, there are a couple of isolated mineral railways running with 50kV electrification. They might work!:)
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Aah ... but what about current collection from 3rd rail? S'pose the 60's era diagonal cab stripe could be reintroduced for locos powered by OHLE ..... just in case anyone misses the pantograph!

    Of course, if electric firing were coupled with fireless technology, just replace the coal space with pressure condensing gear (always so successful in railway applications) and a dual current loco could work through services from Glasgow to Weymouth Quay ..... Or not!
     
  4. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Depends on what kind of horsepower we are calculating.Cox gives 1630 indicated horsepower and depending on internal friction and air-resistance 1340 drawbar horsepower is not a mile of.
     
  5. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    I'm not sure of the capacity of the 3rd rail system, but I think it's less than the 25kV overhead. Hence the reduced speed of the cross channel trains on the UK side.
    I'm just wondering what the electrical clearance would need to be for 50kV.
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    If memory serves, you're quite correct. Dual current Thameslink units certainly perform better under the wire than south of London. As to how that might translate into the efficiency of a straight resistive load like heating elements, as opposed to traction motors, I haven't got a scooby.

    Given about the only benefit of electric firing under UK conditions would be negated be the inability to revert to coal when running off OHLE.

    Personally, I'd leave the whole electic firing issue with Hornby's 00 gauge live steam A4!
     
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  7. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Switzerland

    In fact, most of the Lakes are too large to freeze other than perhaps in smaller inlets etc. I have been Lake Lucerne in February and no sign of ice )lovely sunny day in fact - a great day for going up the Rigi! :))

    Steven
     
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  8. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    Regarding resistive and traction motor load, I don't think it makes much difference.

    I agree entirely about the Hornby A4!
     
  9. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    I've heard that the government are looking into hydrogen fuelled trains, being more environmentally friendly than Diesel, and as a stop gap due to the slow progress with electrification.

    I assume this would involve hydrogen fuel cells.

    A hydrogen fired steam locomotive would be possible, but the efficiency of the overall process would be worse than an electric steam locomotive!
     
  10. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    I'm not doubting that in the slightest, what was done was done in order keep things running as opposed to nothing running, and for what it was it did what it did (Non committal or what?) could be like bemoaning the inefficency of walking with an empty can in your hand when you've just run out of fuel.
     
  11. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    DB have had a hydrogen powered unit on trial (in public service) for a couple of years now and they're not stopping there.
    http://www.railway-technology.com/f...n-powered-hydrail-into-the-spotlight-4928956/

    Here, Nottingham University seems to be where most progress is being made, with trials of a prototype on (wait for it!) the Stapleford Miniature Railway back in 2012:
    http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-Industry-Focus-/the-uks-first-hydrogen-powered-locomotive

    Whether such technology (assuming it becomes mainstream) is viewed as a stop-gap pending, or an adjunct to electrification isn't yet clear - well, not to me at any rate!

    (.... and before anyone asks .... No, I don't think hydrogen fired steam locos will ever be a reaistic option!)
     
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  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Well, as a horsepower is 0.746kw and power is a product of speed and pull, it is a fairly simple calculation.
     
  13. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    I agree with you, but the Swiss locomotive was much smaller that the black 5 which is the subject of discussion in this thread.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There is an old unit of measurement known as a boiler horsepower (still used in the USA, I think) which is about 13 hp. Thus, if you wanted a boiler to use with (say) a 100hp engine, you would go for a boiler of 100 boiler horsepower, making it easier for people to match boiler and engine. This isn't a precise thing but a 1000hp loco would require a boiler with a heat input of 13000 hp
     
  15. Eightpot

    Eightpot Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    As an 'in-between' from 25kV OHLE and the Southern 750 (odd) Volt 3rd rail system, to get the necessary power from the 1500 Volt system in the Netherlands they need two overhead contact wires.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  16. Eightpot

    Eightpot Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    Which works out at about 7.7% efficiency.
     
  17. 45045

    45045 New Member

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    and hydrogen produced on an industrial scale comes from? so will reduce emissions and be very environmentally friendly.
    will go back to the idea of a third rail train having diesel and electric power as no one has done it this century........
     
  18. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic New Member

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    Would this make it an electric kettle?
     
  19. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Regarding this "Electric Steam" locomotive idea - I think it's fair to say that "just because you can doesn't mean that you should..."
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    The old 4REP units collected way more juice than any other 3rd rail units, to the extent MU operation of 2 REP's together was banned.
     

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