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Engines of War: what steam locos changed WW2?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by S.A.C. Martin, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    What about the Robinson 2-8-0's - served in both wars and more requisitioned as late as 1952 (I think) Used in all sorts of places from here to Australia.

    Although in general I agree it was the railway workers who kept the whole thing running under horrendous conditions (particularly in the blackout) that deserve the credit.
     
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Bit of history of the class here @Reading General if you scroll down it says the LNER did prepare some to be requitisioned at the start of the war. https://www.lner.info/locos/O/o4o5.php
     
  3. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member Friend

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    Probably fewer than you might imagine. The Southern Way special Southern ar War set of 3 books mentions both locos and rolling stock being repaired post bomb damage. Some of the damage looks terminal but often wasn't

    On the subject of control Dunkirk must have been the bigget challenge.

    Many say the Spitfire won the Battle of Britain. The reality is the ministry of suply was just as important. Whilst there was a terible toll on pilots many did manage to safely parachute down. Their plane was a wreck but by the time they got back to their airfield the ministry of supply (that may not be the proper name) had provided a new plane. Britain was not short of planes but it was short of pilots
     
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  4. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    In Denmark it was the other way round.
    Without WW2 there would have been no steam and railways left.
    People wanted cars and bought them in alarming numbers.
    Rail freight were loosing to lorries.
    Rails advantage in WW2 was availability of coal and steel instead of petrol and rubber.
     
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  5. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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  6. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Active Member

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    [Blatant parochial post]
    I wish they had sent a few Dean's goods down under instead. ;)

    HEY YOU GUYS!....

    Europe wasn't the only theatre of WW2 you know! Queensland rail also had to cope with increased traffic and procured what was to become known as the A16 class locally:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_AC16_class_locomotive

    "World War 2 and the occupation by Japanese forces of pacific Islands and islands to the north of Australia saw Queensland placed under the threat of imminent attack. This placed a great strain on Queensland Railway's resources in the movement of wartime supplies and troops.

    A request was made in 1941 for further, new C17 class locomotives and the specifications were forwarded to the United States where the United States Army Transportation Corps (USATC) drew up plans for a 2-8-2 with specifications similar to a C17 class. The locomotives are also known is United States of America as USATC S118 Class Steam locomotives. These locomotives were intended as a standard design for use on Narrow guage railways in other parts of the world as a wartime measure. Thus twenty engines obtained from the United States under Lend-lease arrangements and later purchased. They were the only ones of their type to come to Australia out of a total of 741 similar engines built for USATC. They were unloaded in Sydney in 1943 and railed to Brisbane for assembly."


    Nice pic here: (although, I'm sure they were not that pretty at the time.) http://www.theworkshops.qm.qld.gov..../TWRM/Fact+sheets/ac16-221a-compressed-fs.pdf

    Then there was the 'Australian Standard Garratt'. Designed and built in response to war requirements but was not in any way a war changing locomotive!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Standard_Garratt
     
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  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Member

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    We can also add North America to this list as well, and also think about the role of railways in the war in Africa, the Middle East and Asia (including Southern Asia). One of the problems in the UK is that the dominant narrative about the war is very parochial.
     
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  8. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Very valid points here IMO. Something else to be considered is that, following the invasion of the Soviet Union, Uncle Joe had the bulk of Russian industrial production (which of course included railway manufacturing facilities) uprooted from the west and relocated east of the Urals.

    Could you imagine, had Hitler's hoardes crossed the channel, the entire British railway industry being transposed onto (for instance) Lochgorm Works ... and remaining components of workshops at Ashford, Brighton, Eastleigh, Stratford, Swindon, Bristol, Wolverhampton, Wolverton, Derby, Crewe, Leeds, Gorton, Patricroft, Newton-Le-Willows, Doncaster and Darlington (assuming Glasgow companies sufficiently distant from fighting) being rendered useless to any invader .... and all in a matter of weeks?

    It's worth noting too, that much of the wholesale destruction suffered by European rail networks occured during that later phase of WWII, when Nazi forces were being driven to defeat ... a dreadful, but unavoidable factor in the destruction of that vile regime.
     
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  9. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    but the location is Preston rd .(and I'm a pedant)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  10. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Member

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    Ralph Wedgewood
     
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  11. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    And it isn't in every other country?
     
  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    That being the A4 listed in Cartman’s post. ;)
     
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  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Very much so. I visited the Dresden War Museum in DDR days and the narrative was heavily Eastern Front/“liberation”by the USSR centric.
     
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  14. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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  15. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    Good point.I don't think the British appreciate how fortunate they were that the Invasion never happened. Life under occupation wouldn't have been pleasant at all. It was a close run thing and but for the Americans , it could have been very different
     
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Member

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    It is and it is a serious issue in developing a broader historical understanding. The narrative of exceptionalism is deeply pernicious and it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Absolutely - That would be a classic example of ideologically driven historiography. It is perhaps more obvious to us because it is an ‘other’ history, whereas we don’t recognise the ideology that frames historical narrative closer to home.

    While I don’t want to get drawn into counterfactuals, a lot would depend on the speed of a collapse, the level of collaboration, perhaps a look at the railway industry in France might prove fruitful, or Poland, where there was no attempt to establish a modus vivendi with the population and was brutally administered.
     
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  17. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    There's doubtless some mileage in this agrument, but my own post's UK consideration after stating the fact of Stalin's actions was quite deep enough into 'what if' territory for me - thanks! :)
     
  18. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Member

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    :) questions such as this provoke new questions, I hadn’t really thought about the fate of the French locomotive industry until you mentioned the British locomotive industry, which reminds me at some point to find out if anything has been written on the French case.

    As a footnote, the fate of Irish railways during the war of independence and civil war is very interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Americans didn't save us from invasion per se, that threat subsided in the autumn of 1940 and was well and truly kicked into touch once the Germans attacked Russia. No denying that they helped us win though.
     
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  20. Wenlock

    Wenlock Active Member Friend

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    An interesting little list. I noted that this particular page lists DC (Drewry) and AB (Andrew Barclay) locos. Is there a separate page listing the HE (Hunslet) examples?

    I used to drive HE2067/1940, now preserved at BRC.
     

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