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Fellsman 2024

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Oswald T Wistle, Jan 26, 2024.

  1. walkerp1

    walkerp1 New Member

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    60007 at Bay Horse, Beckfoot & Waitby.

    IMGP1084_1as.jpg
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/167082436@N06/53741039602/in/datetaken-public/

    IMGP1101_bs.jpg
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/167082436@N06/53742384155/in/datetaken-public/

    IMGP1123_1s.jpg
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/167082436@N06/53742384275/in/datetaken-public/

    Phil
     
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  2. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    A nice report. Maybe the 75th anniversary train will have better weather in 2034 ;). <BJ>
     
  3. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Whoops
     
  4. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Never having travelled behind SNG before, I wanted to remedy that. My eyes lit on this tour northbound over Shap and back over the S and C, an anniversary trip for the Society. I thought this might be the nearest possible to a pure steam trip with low fire risk. So, back in January I booked, not considering flood. I was in standard (Mk 1 coach F, the buffet) so can't comment on the grub.

    Walking across a very soggy breezy Warrington yesterday morning, I wondered how things would pan out. The departures board told a sorry tale, OK-ish E-W but not where we were going. Passengers for Scotland should travel via Leeds.... Charter Train shown as on time. After talking to one or two people at Carlisle, what I now know is that at that point they didn't know where the train would be going, round Copy Pit, round the Little North-Western or whatever. Nothing was said and we proceeded more or less on time up the WCML to a brief pause at Preston and on to the water stop at Barton and Broughton. By this point the decision was made that we could go over Shap, I believe the first train since the Caledonian sleeper twelve hours previously (which was occupying P3 at Carlisle). While at Barton we were overtaken by the Windermere and apart from that saw only one train, a freight, between there and Carlisle. However, the weather had improved from rain to cloudy with occasional showers, and good views were to be had rather than the mist I feared. We were allowed to depart from our second water stop at Grayrigg 15E and were stopped at Penrith station for an advisory. We soon saw why. Where the Eden widens out into a strath at Plumpton it had flooded and water was cascading across the railway into the flood. Pass at 5mph was the instruction. After all that an on time arrival at Carlisle was achieved.

    The departure board at Carlisle showed trains to Newcastle and one TPE per hour to Manchester, everything else cancelled. No decision on how we would get back. On returning, the decision was made, S and C reopened. The water levels were high but nothing like at Plumpton, and apart from one slowing at Little Salkeld, I didn't notice anything on the ground which affected running. However it did start again from the skies! The first northbound was the 1518 from Leeds passed at Blea Moor, followed by a freight. The works on the footbridge at Horton are ongoing so we watered at Long Preston and had a welcome leg stretch at Hellifield.

    This was a heavy train with let us say 12 coaches @420 tonnes plu a 100 tonne diesel on the drawbar. My take is that as far as possible it was a pure steam experience. @Mike Wylie might wish to say more or correct me. Mike was driving southbound and Matt (sorry didn't catch the name) northbound. The general running on the level was at or just below the 70 mark on the WCML. So I will just comment on the three climbs. From the water stop at Grayrigg, we did have a shove from the diesel to get us up to 69 at Tebay. From there the loco was on its own and made a fine climb of Shap (I made it 7' 16'') with 38 min at the summit. In the afternoon, in showery conditions, we passed Appleby and Ormside at line speed and then dug in for a climb which was unassisted ( Ormside Station to Ais Gill summit board in 23' 53''). To my mind that is a fine climb in the conditions with the equivalent of a fifteen coach train.

    By 1830 and the 1 in 80 Wilpshire we had light rain and wet rails to contend with not to mention the stopper. Again we saw the maxim-- don't leave Clitheroe until the stopper has passed Daisyfield Jct--come true. We were stopped at Whalley and had no momentum. My impression is Mike had a good go, but she slipped within sight of Langho Station and he had to whistle up for a shove. Very necessary in those conditions.

    Overall a memorable day. What could have been a real downer was rescued by a ton of behind the scenes work to make it happen and some really good running. So, many thanks to Matt and Mike, the firemen and all the support staff on the day. I hope they slept well last night, must have been worried the night before.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's reads as a pretty objective assessment of what to expect with LSL managed charters until they get their generator car going. It's somewhat ironic that Belmond has seen it important to get their car going on the British Pullman when arguably their customers might care less than those on LSL.

    Overall though, it's impressive that everyone worked together to make this trip happen. Perhaps the dearth of normal traffic made things easier although it seems that it was definitely not a day for the faint hearted!
     
  6. 46203

    46203 Member

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    _DSC3812-Edit.jpg

    Bit late to the show but having issues with the Adobe Lightroom catalogue again. Anyway, 60007 is pictured climbing away from a soggy Carlisle with the return Fellsman, 23.05.24.
     
  7. Mike Wylie

    Mike Wylie New Member

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    Yes, unassisted after the 20TSR at Long Meg. Just worked steadily, fireman and engine in good nick at the summit.
     
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  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Is a generator car really any value to them? Operationally far more flexibility with the diesel, I see the whole train was turned at Carlisle.
    I suspect NR are happier with a diesel on the back as well, especially on a "trip into the unknown" day like yesterday.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Even if a generator car had been available for yesterday's trip, with so much water about it would have needed a very brave TOC to decide to take that rather than a diesel loco. And if that had been the decision, would the train have got to the top of Wilpshire?
     
  10. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    In yesterday's conditions they needed the flexibility and the insurance. I'm a pragmatic purist. But if anyone from NR reads this, a ten min gap at Clitheroe from the stopper to the charter is not enough. It needs to be twenty. Apart from that one blip, the scheduling was fine.

    In nice weather (is there such a thing), the arguments are different.
     
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    In my view, yes when operationally convenient. Yesterday's trip probably wasn't one of those occasions as has been said already.

    I was making a general point. LSL has the means to do it; they are taking a long time doing so. Until then they won't get my money.
     
  12. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I was making a general point. LSL has the means to do it; they are taking a long time doing so. Until then they won't get my money.
    The other issue of course is loadings.
    From the video it was
    Support Coach
    Mk2
    10x Mk1

    So this was within the Load 13 allowed at this time of the year for a Class 8 loco even with a generator car in lieu of the diesel, but not the load 12 of a Class 7.
    But in the past there have also been random occurrences of the B1 or the Black 5 on tours they were not scheduled to operate.
    So do you roster a diesel driver "on standby" in case you need to remove the generator car due to a loco change, do you sell less seats and I assume increase the ticket price for everyone else, or do you bounce a coach load of passengers? Not sure Ryanair or Avanti levels of customer care fits with the LSL brand ethos.
    Thus a rostered diesel covers lots of issues and I can see why in 2024 it appears to be the preferred option.

    Those loadings are off an NR document someone posted on here in 2019, I assume they are still valid.
     
  13. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

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    On Thursday having a diesel made absolute sense due to the weather conditions. On a dry day though running 60007 with 13 on including the generator car would have been more than possible. As things currently stand a tour over the Devon Banks will be one loco hauling 11/12 with a 47 on the back. In the future with hopefully 5029 and 6024 returning in the next few years the hope is that double heading maybe do able unassisted with the generator car although in 2022 when 70000 and 34046 double headed over the Devon Banks there was still a 47 on the back and the whole train turned at Plymouth. I must say though with LSL’s business plan running a train with one loco over the Devon Banks unassisted with 9 or 10 on doesn’t make sense. I would love to see LSL run steam unassisted regularly but I’m not expecting it to happen any time soon.
     
  14. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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  15. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Well-Known Member Friend

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    It would be nice to see the BTP take an interest with this muppet, obviously a member of the 'Sod you, I've got my shot brigade'
     
  16. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Should be done for crimes against photography too, while they are at it. Holding his phone in portrait mode for a landscape-shaped subject. Drives me nuts.
     
  17. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    60007 today, per RTT. But beware the Appleby Horse Fair!
     
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  18. 2857Harry

    2857Harry Member

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    Working nice at Jack Green. No assistance from the 47. Nice rake of MK1s, pesky statesman Pullman on the back end!
     
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  19. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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  20. 2857Harry

    2857Harry Member

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    Helwith Bridge was very lovely. Diesel barely even noticeable, idling away. Absolutely super performance
     
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