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Ferret and Dartboard

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by agecroft, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. agecroft

    agecroft New Member

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    I have seen a lot of references in the Railway press and various forums (including this one) to the "Ferret & Dartboard" crest on BR locomotives.

    These almost always refer to this as being the later (1957-on) crest used. I have always thought that it was actually the earlier crest that was referred to as such in steam days.

    I think I now have evidence that I am correct. I attach a photo of a page from the August 1956 Trains Illustrated, announcing the "new" BR crest. This article clearly refers to the early emblem as the Ferret and Dartboard.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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    Interesting as there is a post on RMweb that also suggests that the (Uni-)Cycling Lion Emblem (earlier crest) was also described as the "Ferret & Dartboard" in a 1973 book authored by George Dow (apparently a lifetime railwayman who began his career with the LNER) The poster on RMweb is also puzzled as to why the usage of the term Ferret and Dartboard may have changed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  3. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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  4. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    "Ferret and dartboard" is arguably an even better description of the late badge than the earlier one, so might the name have been continued in use?
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've always thought the Lion over the wheel was known as the Cycling Lion if that's any help
     
  6. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

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    .... that's what I've always understood.
    Ray.
     
  7. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Active Member

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    So have I.
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed. Always been “cycling lion” for early crest and “ferret and dartboard” for late crest in my book.
     
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  9. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    The description "ferret and dartboard" seems to apply about equally to both emblems; but I would say equally badly rather than equally well. Both versions of the animal are fairly typical heraldic lions, as seen in many other places. Neither seems to me to look anything like a ferret. So was "ferret" originally pure sarcasm?
     
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  10. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    I've always associated the term "Ferret and Dartboard" with the earlier crest, and thought (although I don't think I got this from anyone else) that it was because of the stretched out body of the lion over the wheel that gave it a ferret-like appearance. This might have been due to being more familiar with it in 4mm scale where details are less obvious!

    Steve B
     
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  11. jsm8b

    jsm8b Well-Known Member

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    Compare and contrast :- the later emblem is the genuine article as on 60010 at Shildon in 2012, the 'earlier' one on 6023.
    Like Spamcan I've always referred to the earlier one as a cycling lion and type ferret and dartboard into Google and you will get the later emblem.. Dated now but both still visually better in my opinion than the corporate arrow of indecision which has been with us since the 60s.




    _MG_5300 60010  BR applied late tender crest Shildon NRM 201012.JPG _MG_6075  EOS 5D Mark II 6023 Lion on blue 250313.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    This is an entirely subjective view: but to my eyes, it is interesting that the earlier logo looks more modern than the later one. I think it is a combination of the sans-serif font and the stylised shading on the lion, with just a few block colours. Whereas the later logo, with serif fonts and a more literal / subtle shading of the body of the lion and the crown looks like a deliberate attempt to be old fashioned!

    As for the arrows of indecision - the fact that it is still widely seen as the symbol of a railway on road signs, maps and so on, 25 years after British Rail ceased to exist, must say something about just how effective a piece of graphic design it was.

    Tom
     
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  13. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Having watched various stations in North East Wales being re-branded from Arriva to TFW last week, the arrows of indecision are the one bit of branding that is neutral and has outlasted many other operators and Railtrack itself. Yes, a good bit of design.

    Steve B
     
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  14. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    I have wondered when the earlier "cycling lion" (for want of a better description) emblem ceased to be applied to locos. I assumed that as it was replaced by the later one from the late '50s its use would have ceased shortly after. However I photographed Fairburn tank 42085 in store at Carnforth on the last day of scheduled steam (3/8/68) and it still carried the cycling lion on its side tanks. This loco was withdrawn from Normanton in Nov. '67 and had its last heavy general overhaul at Crewe in 1964. Were Crewe still using the old emblem as late as this or did the loco not need a repaint after such a repair?
    Sorry for the thread drift. IMG_20160828_0015.jpg

    Peter
     
  15. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    1. Have also heard the term ' Lion and Unicycle' ( a play on Lion and Unicorn ?) used for the Early Crest...
     
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  16. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    There were many locos that retained the early emblem, including one of the five BR Standard Clans scrapped at Darlington.
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    7816? Although this may have been it's previous livery coming through.
     
  18. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    That had "G W R" on it's tender to the end, allocated to Reading in 1962 I think it "inherited" the tender from ex Reading mogul 6324 which also had "G W R" on it's tender when withdrawn in 1962.
     
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  19. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

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    I have heard that the original crest also had a very rude nickname based on the position of the lion and wheel.
     
  20. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    I've always known the later emblem as The Cat and Mangle
     

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