Flying Scotsman single chimney poll

I hesitate to commit to a large donation after undertakings made as part of the appeal for vacuum brakes to run with the teak sets - which would always have been compromised by the late BR condition - have been ignored by this latest decision.

Steven

 

Fair point.

 

No, because it's not a 'shake and bake' proposition, and why prolong this restoration any further? There could be an argument for doing it at a later stage, but again, as experience with KEII's cab, bonnet and chimney might suggest, frequent changes to satisfy all tastes would be too much hassle.

Furthermore, it was given a double chimney for a reason, and if there is a will to adopt a new system to facilitate the single chimney configuration without affecting operational efficiency, then I refer to the prolonging of the restoration/expense and hassle of related redesign.

 

The optional time to do this would be at its 5 year mark, when it has an intermediate overhaul, that way it can then return in a livery its never carried before in preservation, or in green, who knows, with a bit investigating a way could be found to fit a different drafting arrangement so that a single chimney does not de tune it.

 

Would'nt it be better to de'tune it, thus ensuring further strain is not put on what's left of the original frames. . . .

 

For goodness sake. When the NRM announced it was going into LNER green as 4472 several years ago there were numerous handbags put into orbit on here. Now it's going into BR drab they are back on the launch pad. As Thomas and Percy discussed loudly when Gordon got lost and ended up on the branch line, best thing to do would be take all the scrap iron down to the harbour and push it in. "It would make a lovely big splash!" Take that advice and then nobody could be offended anymore

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And who knows, if everyone pledged enough pennies, in time, we could have single chimney apple green - and BR apple green, BR blue, BR green single chimney and LNER apple green a la Pegler and McAlpine era...but it will take cash, not words.

 

Thank you Anthony, and thats my point, get fund raising, so that when she is due for an intermediate overhaul, there is a single chimney and blastpipe ready to go on, if its at the 5 year mark, then you will have 5 years of being able to show her in a different livery in some cases ones that she has not run in before

 

You won't be going anywhere near NR with a double chimney and no deflectors as you come back to the original reason they were fitted of drifting smoke.

As I said in the other thread, I'm not against LNER livery, but am against the dogs dinner of LNER livery and BR Deflectors, so suggest if you want "4472" that badly, a single blastpipe ready to go in at the intermediate overhaul stage would be the best course to take.

I remember 60103 on the SVR and GWSR on the 90's too and don't recall many being put off by the look, which support the theory you could hang the nameplates on Green Arrow or Tornado and average joe woulden't know the difference.

 

+smokebox wrapper alterations, +re-designed spark arrestor, +extending the handrails on the barrel. It soon mounts up.

 

It were Bill & Ben [and no not the flower pot men!] the twins based on the Port of Parr pair, that for the life of me I can't remember the names of......

 

I'd rather see BR green if the smoke deflectors and double chimney are fitted. I would ultimately prefer apple green, but obviously going back to a single chimney is a fairly big job... as to those who say it's inauthentic for a loco in A3 condition, I'd suggest that the Pegler years were a period of significance for the loco, being one of the earliest main-line operated (and globetrotting) privately preserved locos. So apple green, red name plates, green cylinder cladding, LNER arms on the cabside and two tenders...!

 

Alfred and Judy

What I always find interesting about livery froth is that people seem to take the stance that when a loco is painted a certain colour, it will be that colour for ever and ever. 'Tornado' has been in 4 different liveries (I believe) within the space of 10 years.
The loco may be BR green now, but 10 years ago it was apple green, in 5 years time it might be blue, or black, or green.
It's not as if there is a shortage of photos or video of it in apple green.

On the subject of 'people won't recognise it', then surely the NRM, as an educational facility, can use this opportunity to educate people that the loco was not always one colour?

 

Yep you are right there. Been a few years since I read it!

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I can see why the NRM want to put it into BR Green as the most authentic combination for the A3 boiler, double chimney, and smoke deflectors all on and fitted at the same time. However, Flying Scotsman is a preserved operational engine and theres no reason at all why every single engine needs to be so constrained on its appearance. Fact is that the smoke deflectors and chimney make operation easier, and that the public know it to be really an LNER green machine - hence Tornados decision to go LNER gren first as thats what colour most people think an express engine is, because of Flying Scotsman. Railway preservation always looks backwards, rather than forwards to Scotsmans next 10 years in traffic, 7 of which on the mainline.

As a result why not make operation easier, and go for the popular outline which is what the engines appearance is for today. Its thus accurate for an A3 in 2015. That appearance? LNER Apple Green, with double chimney, and smoke deflectors.

 

A poster above mentions "not getting near NR without the smoke deflectors", but remember that they were fitted as a result of fitting the Kylchap double blastpipe, which gave a much softer exhaust. (Townend, "Top Shed" page 156 ) So if the money is raised to fit a single blastpipe and chimney at some point in the future, the question of drifting smoke is not likely to be such a problem.

Poster The Black Hat mentions Tornado and its various livery changes, but with respect Tornado is a different case. It is/was a new engine. Flying Scotsman is not so.

Frankly I think the NRM has come up with the right answer for now, and holding out the prospect of a future change of configuration if enough people put their money on the line. I wonder if Anthony knows if the original single blastpipe etc still exist? And if they do, are considered reusable again?

As an aside, being of a certain age I have personal photos of 60103 with double chimney and German deflectors racing North through Retford in the early 1960's with BR maroon stock, and a number of "Alan Peglar" era images of the loco in single chimney configuration. My favourite is of the loco as 4472 leaving Sheffield Victoria on a special train, hauling a full set of LNER teaks. Presumably they were in maroon, but its a black and white photo anyway!

46118

 

46118, the single chimney fell apart I believe at the Babcock retube. We'd have to make anew, not a problem, but something that was decided upon before my time - and at that stage, the operations side fell in favour of keeping the double chimney over the curatorial desire to have a single chimney. Since that time, we have had a number of offers of folks offering to assist in the redraughting of the engine should a single chimney become a viable option.

 

You've just answered the question I was about to ask Anthony - whether the single chimney form could be optimised to get closer to the benefits of the double chimney. Given Flying Scotsman is being treated slightly differently to ensure it can still operate on the main line (air brakes plus the new safety related electronics), improvements to the draughting are likely to be acceptable within the locos conservation plan.

Anyway, important thing is to get the loco back operating again and encouraging new people to get interested in railway preservation.

Regards,

Dan