Flying Scotsman

Yes "they" are

 

Excellent news Anthony - I trust it's going well? Your photographs of the frames making their way back were lovely, really enjoy going through your blog.

 

Interesting news potentially but I'm gonna believe it when I see it cos there is a big difference between being on target and actually delivering on time as we have all seen with this engine. And ow for the most important question. Are NRM going to honour the promise of painting it BR Brunswick Green, or like the A1 trust are going to change their minds now that they have the publics money in the bank? Controversial I know but having seen previous promises by certain people broken it is very discouraging.

 

I don't understand your post. Unless you know something the rest of us don't, Tornado will be repainted into Brunswick after her winter overhaul.

 

My only quarm is that initially it was promised that she would carry BR Green for two years in both early and late. And now she is only to carry both until next Christmas. And now what with her needing extending repairs this may now only be for a 7 month period.

 

Sorry this is not meant to turn into a 60163 debate. End of comment. Back to 60103.

 

When did NRM ever promise to paint Flying Scotsman in BR green?

 

In the whole Steam Railway raising yet more money to help overhaul her. It was requested that she would be fitted with vaccum brakes and carry BR Green at some point in its ten year boiler ticket. In fact it was promised during both times that the appeal for Scotsman has been held. That was part of the agreement. Supposedly.

 

Personally I think it may be cheaper to build a new A3 and number it 60103 Flying Scotsman and if I ever win the Lottery that's my intention.

 

I believe they gave a promise that "at some point" in its boiler ticket, it would carry BR Green (like almost every other operable Pacific) to the BR Livery Photographers Journal (Steam Railway) - don't think it was connected to a specific appeal.

I think TA will find the general public, to whom Flying Scotsman is an Apple Green 4472, contributed far more than the usual, vocal "but it must be BR Liovery or I can't take any photograph" brigade. Indeed, even enthusiasts have contributed extra money to dual brake the loco (again through Steam Railway) so that it can run wioth the NYMR and SVR LNER Teak rakes - which would be rather pointless if painted in BR Green.

I believe 1472/4472/103/60103 carried BR livery with double chimney and smoke deflectors for around 3 years in service - in other words, has probably run recently in LNER Apple Green in this condition longer than in BR livery! Now, I would argue that the loco should be returned to single chimney and no smoke deflectors, which can be "basically" right with both LNER and BR liveries.

The fact is that 4472 is a global brand and the vast majority of people expect to see the loco in LNER Livery. As my mother said when we trapsed across to Llangollen to have a very cold ride behind the loco (which had mno steam heat at the time!) "that's not Flying Scotsman - its just another BR Green loco"!

Steven

 

Whilst I agree with you that should could carry LNER green or BR green should she be returned to traffic with single chimney and no smoke deflector I somehow don't see this happening anytime soon. Whats more I am not completely against LNER apple green and actually while you paint all photographers with the same brush "but it must be BR livery or I can't take a photograph", I think you will find that like me most photographers would happily photograph the loco in Apple green on the Teak stock as you mentioned. Look at the V2 for example. I did two days of photo charters with the V2 at the SVR on the teaks and so did lots of other people. I would have done the NYMR charters had I been able to have sufficient time of work and been able to travel to yorkshire for them. Its not that we are anti apple green necessarily it's that we would like to see it and be able to photograph it in BR Green. Is it outrageous that we should be allowed to enjoy our hobby as well as everyone else? After all we are not asking for it to be permanently BR Green. Just that it can run for maybe half its ticket or less in that livery. Afterall didn't we all contribute to saving the loco? And while you make the point that the general public recognise the locos in LNER Green 60163 now included......I leave you with this thought.....In 8 - 9 years time when 60163's boiler certificate expires and in ten years time when 4472's boiler ticket expires... and there isn't enough money in the pot for the overhaul...is it the general public who are gonna cough up. Is the people who sat at home watching Top Gear and only know about the engine because of the TV programme? No it's us the enthusiasts who will yet again be asked to pay. So why the **** do we keep the engine in the livery just because the General Public might not recognise it. If you asked a man who had been blind all his life to tell you what color the grass or the sky is would he not say green and blue respectively? He's never seen them but he's told it's true.

So when the public see 60163 in BR Green tell them that 60163 is still Tornado in BR Green, Blue, or LNER Apple Green and Flying Scotsman is still Flying Scotsman as 1472/4472/103/and believe it or not even 60103. So educate the public with engines such as Flying Scotsman and Tornado....use them as tools to teach about the railway heritage that they represent. 4472 was not always Apple Green. It's like the photos you see in the mags that give the impression that the sun always shines. Neither of these are the case.

 

Aren't we losing sight of the bigger picture?

It's only a coat of paint! It stops the metal going rusty and is easy to change. That's all.

We should be grateful we have these machines with us and operational at all, not bicker about colour to an infinite degree.

Still, it gives forums like this a reason to exist...

 

I'd like to think that it's a discussion not a bickering match. But that's subjective I guess. And you're right it is just a coat of paint which is easy to change. So why does this issue exist at all?

 

Well, it doesn't in my mind, but it does in yours. There's a clue there somewhere.

 

Oh, and one more thing.

Surely, in the interests of reliability on the modern railway, as well as maximising the loading capabilities, Scotsman must be in the most economical yet powerful mechanical condition possible. Which is why it must remain in double chimney condition, whatever coat of paint it has. Why seek to reduce power and capabilities just to suit apple green paint?

 

Because you posted it @ #223 above maybe?

 

Whatever happened to the single chimney that was removed when McAlpine repainted it in 1993. Personally I don't care how she looks when she comes out as long as she is steam

 

Because, as you say, it is so easy to do and will probably happen someday (I predict). Therefore worth discussing.

 

As a taster of things to come and a chance for those to reminisce (not sure I spelt that right) whilst on the BBC's web site the other evening I put in Steam Trains in the Search part of the web site. Click on the Editors choice and you will see a link for Flying Scotsman this is the program of its last non stop run From Kings X to Edinburgh and is complete unlike the video I purchased many years ago. Hope you enjoy it I did.

 

Thanks All

At some stage during its career it WILL carry BR green. ;-)

Just not yet.