Flying Scotsman

Looks like they have now, and , nothing surprises me that is written by some clown with a perceived agenda....

 

My original comment was of course tongue in cheak, most of us on here can tell the difference from an A1, and an A3, i'm now waiting for the york photo shoot when Blue Peter returns in a couple of years, and the A1,A2,and A3 all in steam Line up .

 

Yes and no. Don't forget the railways were the largest employers in the country before the war and even into the 50s. An awful lot of members of the "general public" have railway connections to that sort of level, and perhaps especially those who are likely to turn up at a preserved line.

 

Getting back to tis week does anybody yet know if FS will be turned? Maybe with its first light running on Wednesday?

Don

 

There is no surviving K3, and it looks like the K4 is being retired for a while.

 

Possibly a B17, although 7 years may be a bit optimistic?

Dave

 

Presumably that was a typo and the author meant 62005…?

Simon

 

That's a rather strange logical process. Because in your world view an ordinary member of the general public can't have specific knowledge about railways, a person who displays such knowledge is ergo not an ordinary member of the general public! Rather a self-fulfilling prophecy...

Tom

 

I'm sure we will find out after the light run, if it happens.

 

kje7812 said: Autumn 1994 when Scotsman visited in BR green having looked through the copies of SVR news I have.

Thank you both for the info. That narrows it down a bit more.

 

I think what he's saying is that there's a trap there. Its likely that most of those who are sufficiently interested to turn up at a heritage line will have some knowledge of railways, even if its just that steam engines are different to electric multiple unit. This means that if one defiines "ordinary member of the general public" as someone with no knowledge of railways at all, then that definition risks including very few of the people who come to heritage railways, and therefore may be of limited practical use. And then, as railways were a central part of british culture through at least 1850-1960, almost everyone is going to have *some* knowledge of railways as part of the sort of general cultural landscape we all share (that could be phrased better - Terry Pratchett had some good words about the sort of cultural backdrop, but I can't find them). Actually Pratchett is a good example anyway. If you read his book "Raising Steam" (which is absolutely not written for railway enthusiasts) carefully , you'll find that he assumes that his readers will have some kind of base level understanding of how railways work and how they were created. The interesting question, getting back to the (off topic) point, is what sort of level of railway knowledge the majority of the public turning up at a heritage line might be expected to have...

 

I once reported a stolen bike to the police. The officer asked me for details. The conversation went: "Gears?" - "Shimano 105s"; he wrote "yes". "Chainset?" - "Shimano 600, 52/42". He wrote "double". "Saddle?" - Brooks professional, large copper rivets". He wrote "black". I could go on but won't; some people can't handle details.

 

I think that the salient point is that people assume at their peril that elderly ladies know nothing about locomotives.

 

Actually the point is very simple. It was suggested that we should not underestimate the knowledge of ordinary members of the public, and as evidence, a lady who had a knowledge of locomotives in the 1950s. To which Ralph suggested that by definition, her knowledge proved she was not an ordinary member of the public! I'm not quite sure how, therefore, one should choose to define such a grouping...

I've always found it dangerous to generalise about people's level of background knowledge. Firstly because, even in railway matters, the subject is so broad that all of us will be specialists in some areas but mostly ignorant about others. One might have detailed knowledge of the design process behind the Gresley pacifics in the 1920s and 1930s, but be a complete beginner when it came to Welsh narrow gauge, or the vagaries of signalling regulations. Secondly, even amongst people who profess no extensive knowledge of railways, there may well be other parts of what we do that provide a deep fascination: I've met people visiting railways who can scarcely count the number of wheels under a locomotive, yet can run rings round anybody with their knowledge of vernacular architecture, and take their fascination from preserved railways in that form. All of whom would, presumably, count as ordinary members of the public.

Tom

 

I'll write on...

...after the photographer had left I approached the lady and had a very pleasant chat. She recognised Tornado from her nameplates (big and blue: her words not mine) and that it was a Peppercorn A1 and she was absolutely certain her father had driven Kestrel, which was also an A1 (and if you're an LNER enthusiast, you'll know was an A4 before too).

She went into detail about his life, what trains she used to see him pull, which yards he worked from (Neville and Copley Hill in Leeds, amongst others) and she also described to general astonishment of a few gentlemen and a guard why she believed Gresleys and Thompsons were bad 'uns and Peppercorns were good 'uns! I asked about her life and she told me that she'd grown up with his photographs, books and whatever little reminders of his driving days had been left behind. She knew the names of her father's favourite steam engines and she knew the routes, but she knew nothing of the actual engineering behind them. She also cared not particularly for steam locomotives: she was far more enamoured with the idea of travel. But the names of the engines her father had driven remained with her and as she said quite assuredly, because they were "iconic".

I did not dare tell her that her father's favourite two engines Owen Tudor and Sandwich were not Peppercorn A1s!

To me she was an ordinary member of the public whose life had been touched, however briefly, by someone's love of railways. When all's said and done, we seem to castigate those at the opposite ends of the knowledge spectrum and prefer instead to marginalise them than trying to bring everyone into our world more. I personally think she had more understanding of the romance and importance of rail travel than many of the railway enthusiasts I've met over the years. I only wish I'd taken down her details and interviewed her properly. Perhaps she's still out there, but she'd be getting on.

That's the saddest thing for me, as I research and write. I can never have those experiences, so it is vital we get those experiences and recollections collected before they are gone.

 

http://www.eastlancsrailway.org.uk/...ents/19d22812-fc09-4b52-8361-c125a6df056b.pdf

Timetable now live. I believe the other engines are to be 34092 and 13065 - a sort of mini gala, that!

 

Any news of today's test run?

 

I don't even know if it went ahead, sorry. Official ELR social media is still adamant about this weekend's running though