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Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 73129, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    I disagree. Many opinions are wrong (especially the ones I disagree with :eyebrows:), but those who hold them have as much right to defend their wrong opinion as I do to my right one.
     
  2. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    I agree. If 4472 had been saved for the National Collection in 1963 and put in a museum since then, like COB, I am sure we would be having this debate now. But since the loco has been in fairly continuous use; being overhauled and modified numerous times over this period there is not much of a dilemma and I am sure few would wish to see it stuffed and mounted now.

    However I think some locos should be left unused, as far as possible preserved as the old railway left them, and COB is one of these.
     
  3. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    I have to expose myself (so to speak!) as one of those few who thinks that 4472, once purchased by the NRM, should have been cosmetically and anti-det restored only and placed in the Great Hall in probably its 1930s condition (which would have meant replacing the A4 boiler it carried with the A3 boiler which the NRM has done anyway). Instead of throwing money at 4472 I would have ordered the building of a replica A3 which would have all the advantages of "newness" that the A1 currently posesses. It could also have been given another name and number from one of its stablemates so as to avoid confusion. Something like "Gay Crusader" might interest the media for example! Good job I'm not in authority I guess but, one day, a new A3 will be the only option for main line running imho.
     
  4. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    If they continue to replace bits, gradually, as they wear out is there any fundamental reason why it should not go on for ever? Or conserve the removed bits and gradually reconstruct 'Gay Crusader' from them (are any of the parts stamped 4477 I wonder?).
     
  5. Sir Nigel Gresley

    Sir Nigel Gresley Active Member

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    [Historical note]
    IIRC (Undergoing major house surgery, so can't find Green Bible or WY) FS didn't receive an A3 boiler until very late in life (after nationalisation?), being one of the last A1s (later A10) and certainly didn't carry one in the 1930s, so we would need to fabricate a 180lb boiler, which would mean no superheater "cheeks" on the smokebox, not to mention the valve travel differences - no raised section above the cylinders, and replacement of the American valve guides. [/Historical note]

    Apologies if we've already covered this.
     
  6. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    So should Blue Peter be preserved in aspic? She is the only A2 surviving and it would seem not likely to see active service for some while. Or is she best as she is, on display in a 'working' steam environment and being , I suspect, affected by all the weather and pollution around her. You could go on, Union of South Africa, 2 already running, why have 3....etc. etc. (this could be daft).........
     
  7. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that, I'm a GWR person really so don't know much about the history of these Gresley Pacifics (embarrassing really as I now live less than 1 mile from the site of a loco shed that was once home to several of them!) except that, like most things, they evolved with time.
     
  8. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Active Member

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    When she returns will she be WCRC or DBS operated?
     
  9. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    Museums are different to heritage railways - and the precedent to operating unique locos is already there - 63601, 4771, 49395, 30777, 850, 673, Hardwicke, 990 etc etc. Each loco is assessed on its merits and a conservation management plan drawn up. yes, it's time for me to write that article methinks.

    As for operating or not operating - well, yes, some will be kept in aspic - but not all, otherwise, if we don't run stuff, my children will say of the static rows in 10-20 years' time "very nice Dad, but why did you keep so many?"
     
  10. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Why not both, others are?
     
  11. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

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    If Heritage Railway is correct RTC and SD are tour operators so I presume both
     
  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Long travel, long lap valves were introduced on A1s commencing with 2555 in 1927 so the raised section above the cylinders is entirely appropriate for an A1.
     
  13. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

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  14. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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    Flying Scotsman was converted to A3 standard c1945 and to a left hand drive engine in c1954. Modellers should therefore be aware that if they are modelling FS as a left hand drive A3 engine their model can only be in BR Brunswick Green.

    Regards
     
  15. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    So was it re-converted to right hand drive upon preservation?
     
  16. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    It is still left hand drive
     
  17. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thought so, therefore if modelling a left hand drive A3 LNER Apple Green is also an option, although you might not wish to run it on an 'LNER period' layout.
     
  18. 6:05 special

    6:05 special Active Member Loco Owner

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    RTC & SD are tour promoters not operators. West Coast Railway Company [WCRC] is the tour operator for both these promoters [although DBS have operated Tornado for SD until now but I understand this will change to WCRC in 2011] WCRC is also the preferred operator of the NRM so this all means RTC & SD will promote tours using "Scotsman" and the trains hauled by it will be operated by WCRC not DBS.
     
  19. mroper

    mroper New Member

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    If WCRC are going to be the tour operator do you think she'll make an appearance on the Scarborough Spa Express in 2011?
     
  20. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    While WCRC might be the preferred operator surely 4472 will be available to both - after all, it wasnt that long ago that the plan was for her to remain air-only making DBS the only option.

    Chris
     

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