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Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 73129, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps Frank has been a bit harsh, but you can understand the frustration. I do take some truck with the idea that because he is a teenager, he therefore must be given some tolerance for his actions. If he was previously unaware of Alan Pegler's death, fair enough, but I think we've reached that stage in the overhaul where it's no longer viable to argue over whether the money spent is a waste - it is only a waste now if Flying Scotsman never turns a wheel again, in any event.

    Teenagers are not immune to the difference, and consequences, between acceptable and unacceptable commentary. A PM in the ear to explain, calmly, why it is wrong, and a retraction from said member, after understanding why people are not taking to his comments warmly, would go a long towards a mutual agreement between all parties.

    On a separate note, is there any news as to whether a form of memorial plaque may yet be fitted to Scotsman? I know it is early days but I feel it would be entirely fitting for the locomotive to carry one somewhere, even if it is not external and in the cab, perhaps. My first choice would be on the main frames at the front, ala Tornado, but I accept others may have different, better ideas for such a memorial.

    Although a good argument pointed out to me was to have Flying Scotsman running again, purely and simply. The best act of memorial for Alan Pegler.
     
  2. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Perhaps a good name for the proposed new build P2 would be "Alan Pegler OBE"?
     
  3. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Yes I get the impression that some people want this project to fail now. On top of that they seem to be keen to blame the very people who are trying to sort it out, with no real grounds to do so. The recent problems are caused by events 4-5 years ago when the overhaul started. Not by the people currently trying to pick up the pieces. The fact they are finding and rectifying all these previously unknown faults shows the project is now being much better managed than it was before.
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Member

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    A question, how would anybody realise 60029 is a teenager? His age is not given in his profile, if anyone looked there in the first place.
     
  5. 46118

    46118 New Member

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    Just returning to the late Alan Peglar for a moment, do correct me if my memory plays tricks, but didn't Mr Peglar suffer a considerable personal financial loss as a result of--I assume--the America trip for Scotsman? I thought he lost his home in the ensuing mess?
     
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    With respect Paul, I'm not sure that would be appropriate. Mr Pegler had no legitimate link, as far as I am aware, to the Gresley P2s except by Flying Scotsman. It has been suggested on the LNER forum, however, that the name Malcolm Crawley would be wholly appropriate for a new build P2 by the A1 Trust. I concur with that assessment wholeheartedly.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Ralph - if "60029" is a mere stripling and youth - then even more reason for him to engage brain and show some respect before posting. As a non mod I will reply as I see fit and as the saying goes - if they are mature enough to post in their own name, then they are mature enough to take the response. That's a life lesson they can't learn too early.

    Perhaps that's why I can be unremittingly proud of the way my kids grew up, and are bringing their kids up, instead of being apologists for uncouth and disrespectful behaviour when it surfaces, they are useful members of society with qualifications and a desire to contribute something to society rather than merely denigrate it.

    I grew up and was educated in establishments where respect, and knowing your place, was part of the territory, and I expect the same of others. If you want to give posters leeway to express distasteful and frankly insulting comments towards people who are pulling their tripe out to do a good job - then you do it - but you'll get no kudos from me for taking such a decision as a mod.
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So 60029 makes a rather rash statement about 4472, don't you think that instead if making fun of his chosen username, and arrogantly slapping him down infront of the whole forum, then justifing this with 'he's got to learn', a more productive debate may have ensued if you had asked him to justify his remark.
    What he has learned is that there are supposed mature adults here that deserve no respect as they do not reciprocate it.
     
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  9. keith6233

    keith6233 New Member

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  10. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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  11. 60029

    60029 New Member

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    I'm sorry if anyone got angry about what I said.

    What I mean is maybe, that th loco could be put on static display while large amount of spare parts could be made so that the time out of public view would be less.

    I know I worded it wrongly as I was in a rush.

    I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond, it's my A-Levels, they take up so much time.

    But please don't hate me because I'm young.
     
  12. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I would also like to pay my respects to Alan Pegler, while I did not know him personally (although I would have loved to have met him), I could easily tell that he was a fine gentleman, with a good heart and enthusiasm like no other. And staying on topic with Flying Scotsman, there is little doubt in mind that no one was as fond, or cared for it, as much as he did. Its just a great shame that he won't be there to see it return to steam, although when the big day does finally come, I can somehow imagine him being there in spirit, patting the engine, with a big smile on his face...

    Indeed hearing this saddening news has revitalised my belief and support (as indeed I'm sure it has for several others) in seeing 4472's overhaul coming to an ultimate and fine conclusion...

    On a more brighter note, I'm curious as to what any of you are most looking forward to seeing, apart from the engine's return to steam, what future sight or event are you looking forward, or indeed hope to see?

    For me, it's the recent news that 4472 will be visiting the GCR, when it will be I cannot say, though I'm betting on the Autumn Steam Gala.

    Also when 4472 is finally given its single chimney back, just as Alan Pegler himself kept it and would have probably wanted it to be now.

    Now that to me, would be a no better tribute to such a fine man...
     
  13. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    I don't think anyone will hate you because you are young, we were all young once ,

    dealing with your remarks about 4472, if i am honest the work done is now too far advanced to mothball the engine , had it been clear from when it was stripped down how much would have been needed then a period static at the NRM whilst funds were raised and parts made could have made sence but none of this was apparent to who ever was in charge then, people have since moved on and a new team are in place, who have what it looks like gone though the loco with a fine tooth comb. Its now only a period of months now before she will return to steam
     
  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Very well said young man. It takes courage to come back and make that sort of statement.
     
  15. Guest

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    Agreed - and well done for saying it - but at A level stage you are embarking on adulthood and will very shortly be completing application forms and undertaking interviews that will have a direct bearing on your future.

    You have probably just had an object lesson on how an unguarded comment can blow up in your face. Take it to heart - think before you write, or speak - and if in the final event - like me - you really believe what you say - then say it - but if on reflection you think there is another way or another way of saying it before you commit - use it!

    Scotsman is a ninety year icon, no less than fifty of them in preservation, and a standard bearer not only for the NRM but for the UK as well. She is also a poisoned chalice that has burnt every owner she has ever had - and that shows no sign of changing - even now. Perhaps when you have seen, or experienced a high speed run on her native stamping ground and seen the reception she gets from the British public you will understand.

    A plinth is no place for a greyhound.
     
  16. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    Don't be silly, no one hates you, you've apologised for the unfortunate way you put your remarks and that's OK by me, lets move on.
    One lesson learned...........if you've made a mistake be big enough to apologise, and that's what you have done.
     
  17. 242A1

    242A1 Member

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    Well done Mr. Howram.

    And 60029, TBF is right, a plinth is no place for a greyhound and by the end of Summer you may have experienced exactly what he means.
    The "poisoned chalice" bit is extreme. Yes owners have got into financial difficulties, the Amercan adventure was skewered by powers back at home who did not want a 40 odd year old steam locomotive representing Britain abroad. You need a great deal of income to fund running a steam locomotive and if your income goes into decline you can no longer afford to look after the engine or, in a much worse situation, keep it. Sometimes you can walk away leaving your pride and joy in good hands but others hang on too long and everything is lost.
    So some owners have been conspired against, others have been unlucky. But most of us are very lucky since the engine still survives. Only a short while to go now and the locomotive should be back and in better shape than it was in the 1950s. Enjoy it. I know I will.
     
  18. 60029

    60029 New Member

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    Does anyone know of any tours that 4472 will do when it's on the mainline that will be near Bristol, I know it is a bit early to ask that kinda question, but there could be reasons for it not to be able to get down here such as loading gauge stuff.

    It's just I want to see it, it was at one time my favorite loco.
     
  19. Steamage

    Steamage Member

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    It's too early to know about specific tours, but Bristol and Bath are sure to be popular destinations. FS has been to Bristol before, and similar locos (Bittern, Tornado...) will be frequent visitors this year. It's not infallible, but a good rule-of-thumb is that FS can go anywhere an A4 can go. (IIRC, Tornado had some design modifications compared with the original A1 class to reduce the overall height slightly, to increase her route availability.)
     
  20. 60029

    60029 New Member

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    Thank you
     

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