Folkestone Harbour Branch

Without being too pedantic myself, the insurmountable - by its very definition - has never been achieved in preservation! Nor indeed in anything else.

Are you one of these people who insists on telling people that they "give 110%", Sidmouth? :wink:

 

When the idea to save the branch was first set out, everything was going to be lost, the viaduct , the station the lot, look at the situation now, the viaduct is saved, the station whilst not saved isnt earmarked for demolition , so we as a body have achieved our first aim ,it looks like a passenger ferry could be running next year if the harbour company decide to give it a try, one thing no one has factored in is the new houses planned for the marina drive area, the idea that you are with in easy and fast reach of france has to be a selling point, add on to this the posibility of a link in with the hi speed service either from an rebuilt east station or if retained by network rail directly from the harbour , so far nothing has been set in stone , but if the ferry returns, then the branch becomes viable to be retained especially with 2012 in mind, there has for some time now been a local idea that the central station is now too far out of town, and that if the eastern station was to be re opened it would be more central to more of Folkestone than central is and then of course you can provide a feeder service if going via the historic leas lift, it might be quicker to get into the town centre than the long walk from central station if the harbour station was re opened the lifts are only yards from the station, and just a short walk into town , what other town could offer that, or the old high street which some might find interesting and of course there is the sunny sands for the bucket and spade brigade and 2 very nice pubs , not to meansion the new fish resturant for the more well healed parts of society running steam or any railway has to be just a way to get people from a to b, but of course, there is the specticle of the1 in 30 climb which should attract the steam hauled charter business and should drum up local business also
The idea behind the rememberance branding , was because of the links the branch had with the first world war, and the canteen on the station, plus the fact that there was still a lot of original superstructure still there, the British legion were asked for their view on the name and supported our use of it, we in turn would when we can support the legion and one idea was that in 2014 that a charter be ran from victoria to the harbour for a 11/11 special service, with the funds raised being donated to the legion, so you see we are not using the name as a ploy as has been remarked by several people on here and given our links, a very special bit of rolling stock could involved, if a short loan for the day could be arranged , being as it transported the bodies of several notable people itwould be kind of fitting

 

Hi Martin,

Reading your posts over the past few days there seems to be a great deal of enthusiasm to get this project up and running. If you are going to build a new station to allow people to access the UK rail network who will foot the bill for this. I remember reading an article about another main line station being rebuilt by Network Rail and the cost was astronomical.

Has anyone asked your neighbors there opinion about you running trains again? I'm thinking about the people living in the following roads that back on to the branch line.
Burrow Rd
Southbourne Rd
Dyke Rd
Dudley Rd

I wouldn't be overly happy with the possibility of having trains traversing the line all day long if I lived in the road adjacent to the branch line . Once the novelty has worn off it wouldn’t be long before people would start complaining about this. If you are also considering running steam locos on the branch line I would think you would run in to a lot of anti railway people living in the above roads with smoke issues.

 

Maybe, and it may already have been done, the railway should contact a few other owners/lines about the cost of hiring in an engine(s) and stock for an extended period.

I think the answer would be - sorry but the stress on the loco would be so large that the cost would be very high. If so there is your answer to the chance of the line running in the future.

If the answer is similar to the normal hire rates then the next step would be to approach Network rail for the cost of hiring the line for a period.

You would then have the basic costs for worknig out whether the line could ever even start to pay.

I think I know what the answer would be but maybe you could come back and surprise us.

 

I for one wouldn't be happy with my loco (if I owned one...) staying for an extended period at a railway entirely surrounded by the salt-sea air unless undercover storage was available for in use stock as well as stock under restoration - if you haven't already thought of it, perhaps such a facility ought to be prioritised if you are successful.

 

As i said previously, nothing is set in stone, but will emerge over time, as regards residents of roads near the lineside, steam will not be the normal motive power ,the only time i envisage steam to run will be on special charters off the main line and on one off special occations so there shouldnt be to much disruption, anyway, as regards covered accomodation, i dont know myself what the answer is it depends on what the layout at folkestone east would be there might be something that can be done, after all the siding roads are 12car lengths , we only need enough for i would guess 4 or 5 but as ive explained im not a board member so dont have the information that they might have plus it also depends on network rails plans , if they , as it has been discussed are concidering closing central and reopening Folkestone East, then our plans would have to change but i do know that network rail are very interested in what we want to do , but also, there is the possibility that they might not lease us the line, but decide to keep it as part of the network and re conect it to the juice because as next year with the games being on, there could be a role for an additional fast route to and from the continent , in meetings with officials the subject of the games seems to come up very often

 

Can I just ask you one question, Martin?

What are three of the principal things that all the really successful preserved lines in the country have in common? Let's say - for the sake of argument - the NYMR, Severn Valley, Bluebell, West Somerset, K&ESR, North Norfolk, Keighley & Worth Valley, G&WR, Dean Forest, Dart Valley, the Bodmin & Wenford. And even the East Lancs, plus the Mid-Norfolk and Spa Valley are coming on in leaps & bounds. Then there's the Welsh Highland, Ffestiniog, R&ER, Tallylyn and the RH&DR.

What are the three things that they all have which are fundamental to attracting Joe Public in sufficient numbers to make them a success?

1. Steam trains.
2. They all give the punters a decent-length ride. They're not getting off almost before they've got on.
3. They run through countryside.

Like it or not, these factors are key to attracting enough people to make a line a success. 'Two very nice pubs and a fish restaurant' are not what attracts Joe Public to preserved railways. A decent-length ride on a steam train to look at the view is what attracts them, not ten minutes gawping at people's back gardens in a run-down conurbation.

Even if it had all the history and 'original infrastructure' in the world, why on earth would people want to do that when many of them will do it on the 07.15 from Orpington and 18.20 return, five days a week.

And for all your attempts at spin on the name, the name is objectionable. I repeat, why shouldn't every beach, aerodrome site, former army camp and so on in the south east be dubbed 'Remembrance'?

The reason is because the case for getting public (as opposed to railway enthusiast) interest in reopening the Folkestone Harbour Branch is so negligible that it's the only way that you can put a positive spin on your desire to play trains.

 

Anyone interested in skirmishing with prolonged 1 in 30 gradients can always volunteer on the Welshpool and Llanfair (1 in 29 actually).

 

Even if a modern rail vehicle is used on the branch line for every day use. It will most probably fail due to being thrashed on a daily basis.

 

Realistically that isnt going to happen, and certainly not because of the Olympics. Even the established cross channel ferry routes carry relatively few foot passengers these days, so the cost of reinstating the branch and the inconvenience of running services down it could never be justified when a coach link would suffice.

Chris

 

Well it seems like I'm not the only one on here that thinks this is a silly idea. I am actually quite surprised as it seemed that mine was the only voice that dared speak against it.

 

Very true. The spate of failures on the Lickey is a daily problem for Network Rail...

 

I have always been a touch sceptical about this taking off. The business case is extremely questionable. Probably the best situation would be to 'Sustran-ise' the interesting bit through the harbour over the viaduct, and turn the station, if you insist, into a little museum on WW1/Railways. If that were to come to pass, I would be happy to help (I wrote my undergraduate dissertation on Britain's Railways and WW1).

 

Sorry just cannot agree with that last post Mr Sidmouth. The railway has nothing for the average punter. Somebody mentioned the Leas Cliff railway. Well we walk along there a fair few weekends a year with the dog and kids going to the costal park and I never see more than a few people near it when its running (I actually think this is because they haven't painted their stock in lined BR black!). Parking is a pain in the bum and expensive. If they do run a tourist service where exactly will it go to? Up the hill then errrr? The branch has views to sea one side and the other is urban grot and burnt out Sierra shells, earinged yoofs tattooing themselves with broken bottles and throwing dog mess at each other. There is nowhere to get off at the top of the hill and nothing to see if you could (other than Tyler, Kyle, Vicky Pollard etc look-a-likes lobbing rocks etc). The harbour is nice though and has a weekend market, a whelk stall and a small sandy beach at one end. The costal park is nice but if you visit these you may have a ride once on the Remembrance Line but once you have done it thus it. The RHDR is just up the road and is a fantastic day out and takes you somewhere interesting and is a blast of a ride to boot. This scheme doesn't and never will as there simply isn't the space to develop, the run to have or the potential interest.

Give it to Sustrans and they will have a good use for it as it could connect with the costal walk and be a real local asset. The viaduct would be safe as well which is what I thought the whole silly scheme was all about in the first place.

Still don't notice anybody from the scheme actually answering any of the points raised. Silence - as usual. Haven't even had the peak oil pillock chip in on this one...

 

Maunsell Man,

You mare so correct with all that you have said here! This scheme is a total non starter. How Sidmouth can justify his comments is beyond me. I can only presume that he has no knowledge of the area!

 

Its a free country (supposedly) so we all have right to an opinion. However what irks me is

1) The title which I consider downright dishonest,

2) It takes funding and potential volunteers from several other local schemes all of which are assets to Kent,

3) In the past there has been lots of hot air on this forum about this scheme and it degenerated into a slanging match. That is OK and can be fun for all parties as nobody dies but it started when the claims got sillier and more outlandish (like the shed built of redundant gantries for the stock and the fleet of gas producing R1 tanks that were being built) and whenever a genuine question got asked how a specific problem would be overcome it wasn't answered with facts - just defensive grellocks and insults!

Wasn't as good fun as the SDJR peak oil man. That was the best entertainment for years. Buy a bit of platform, cut the grass, lay some tarmac from B&Q then tell everyone that the SDJR must be relaid otherwise the world will grind to a halt and then his favourite backwater will spring to life! Utter fantasist. Absolutely brilliant!!!

Personally I think it great fun. It beats what colour is Flying Scotsman supposed to be anyway!