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FR/WHR questions

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by lynton&barnstaple, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. patrickalanbooth

    patrickalanbooth New Member

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    Ok then, will she need anew tender now? and any ideas of livery yet?
    thanks
    Patrick
     
  2. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    There's keen!

    Thanks for the info Andrew.
     
  3. patrickalanbooth

    patrickalanbooth New Member

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    with all the englands being brought together would it be an idea to ask the NRM if LT could be borrowed for a preservation line up, id donate to the transport cost there :) but not back so she can stay there ;) only kidding it would be nice for her to go shildon for a change or even mosi ?
    thanks
    Patrick
     
  4. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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    There must be a 100 better ways to spend the (educated guesstimate) £3000 it would cost to get LT form York to the FR and back again.

    The first would be to add it to the restoration fund for WP, that sort of figure 'may' pay for a new tender body or similar. However my personal suggestion is to put it in the RUSSELL restoration fund, and then we can see another WHR/FR connected engine return to steam.
     
  5. TheBarge

    TheBarge New Member

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    To be honest even if it were 'just' £500 to move LT I can think of hundreds of projects at the FR/WHR/WHHR that would be more beneficial, Russell and WP included.
     
  6. The Italian Tank

    The Italian Tank New Member

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    You've asked some interesting questions here. The winter train set is nominally 7 carrs, yet we have developed a culture of double heading everything between the end of October and January 1st, just because every once in a blue moon a driver slips to a stand and has to be assisted. Don't get me wrong it does get extremely slippy in the woods of the Dwyryd valley but usually this is only for about four weeks from the end of October. Most crews slither along a bit but skillfully manage to keep going. Fitting double engines with sanders would be sensible but it is one of those jobs often talked about but never done. Lyd can take 9 carrs and has sanders, yet is still running double headed :confused1:.
    There are also two perfectly good 8 carr single engines with manual sanders but until they burn coal (I'm starting to wonder if ever...) they won't be considered for use. That's another story!
    I can understand why to an outsider it must seem like the F&WHR are playing musical engines during the winter, when everyone else is winterising the majority of the fleet and keeping just one or two locomotives in use. Since daily running finished Merddin Emrys, Earl of Merioneth, Taliesin, Lyd, Linda and Blanche have all hauled passenger trains not to mention the diesel Criccieth Castle too. And there has never been more than one train set out per day. I'm involved with the F&WHR but these are just my views, and it's fair to say a number of footplate crews avoid this time of year as double heading short and lightly loaded trains is rather dull.
     
  7. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Yes it is pointless practice that seems to have got out of control.

    I tend to avoid being on the footplate this time of year now as well. Last time i did fire in the autumn EofM burned oil and took 12 cars unassisted. I imagine these days that train would require at least 4 engines. For some reason all the trains up until about 3 - 4 years ago made it through the leaf fall season without double heading. I wonder why it is required now?
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    You have a PM...
     
  9. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    ..."double heading everything", isn't that going to cost a lot ?
     
  10. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    To a standard gauge outsider it looks like lack of confidence in your engines/crews. Or is it over panicing by management?
     
  11. patrickalanbooth

    patrickalanbooth New Member

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    I think the reason for the double heading of engines is to provide insurance against delays caused by slipping and loss of traction as if trains are booked but run to late or get stuck it will be a operational and financial headache for the whr and fr and yes in an ideal world sanders would probably solve this problem but as with everything in this day and age its time and money :)
    thanks
    Patrick
     
  12. Rbridge100

    Rbridge100 New Member

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    Yes, but by that reasoning you could use still a diesel. I believe I've seen Lyd running with Criccieth Castle before. How about a Lyd - Upnor Castle pairing?

    I suppose the argument against this is the lure of steam, especially double-headed...though if you paired Lyd with Upnor, maybe people wouldn't notice! Stranger mistakes have been made: Christopher Awdry is supposed to have overheard someone calling A4 Sir Nigel Gresley a "blue diesel"!
     
  13. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    Yes I know that, but to see a relatively big engine like the Fairies or Garratts being doubleheaded on your trains looks a bit wrong somehow.
    That the footplate crews are not rostering themselves speaks volumes.
     
  14. Roger Dimmick

    Roger Dimmick Member

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    In reality it is a case that a small number of footplate crews are not rostering themselves for these trains, which is a good thing...

    Those footplate crew who do not want to work on these winter trains leave space on the roster for those that do... and by sticking to their preference for working single-headed trains they can then help to fill the footplate roster during the busiest times of the year.
     
  15. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    At times it does look like overkill and many days one loco could take the train no problem. Equally I am sure there are days when it is a struggle. The problem is you can not identify a long way in advance and if you have rostered two volunteer crews who have taken holidays to be available it seems sensible to give them a trip and double head rather than get them in the shed for an early light up and then tell them they are not required.

    I have to say with regard to standard gauge I sometimes look at rail tours struggling in the autumn and winter because they are loaded to the hilt with a train that the engine could cope with in good dry condituions and think surely you should expect that in the autumn and winter there is a fair chance conditions will be dodgy and you should plan accordingly
     
  16. talyllyn1

    talyllyn1 Member

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    Many standard gauge afficionados also fail to appreciate the difference between ng heritage line operation and sg. Some ng locos (particularly FR) are operating well beyond their original design parameters, both with regard to load and speed (and sometimes distance as well). Sympathetic improvements, and driving skills, allow them to perform well beyond what was envisaged when they were built. Even then, they are regularly operating near the "limit".
    Sg heritage line locos, on the other hand, are rarely extended to anywhere near their full capacity.
     
  17. GeoffH

    GeoffH New Member

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    The cost of running 2 engines vs the cost of missing the connection at BF means that double heading is good insurance.

    Double heading with a diesel works, but is unpopular with passengers, most of whom are there to ride on a steam train.

    I don't recall any service trains being run doubleheaded with a garratt, with the exception of running in turns.
     
  18. odc

    odc Member

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    Geof, we ran 143 (when it was black and oil fired) d/h with K1 for Christmas week in 2009 (I think) for these same reasons and the Funkie is often rostered to piolet the Garratts to Waunfawr in the Autumn. One day I was on 143 with K1 leading (and putting all disappearing in clouds of steam aside). It was very icy above Bryn y felin and both locos lost feet both ends. It was a struggle round Clogwin y Gwin and into Rhyd Ddu. K1 empted it's sanders and we used all we could on the 16 (this was with the original gravity jobs). Roger got some spectacular photos of us from the road though.
     
  19. The Italian Tank

    The Italian Tank New Member

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    So how do you explain the Santa trains, which only ran to Tan-y-Bwlch therefore didn't meet a mainline connection. They were load seven with enough motive power to take load 21! Anyway the silly season is over now and we can look forward to the spring when the normality of single headed trains returns :becky:
     
  20. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

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    Just to digress a little but earlier in the thread someone mentioned mooted schemes about linking the Bala Lake Railway with the Ffestiniog, and mentioned about it going over the mountains (which would certainly be spectacular). However I'm wondering (apart from the spectacular nature of the scenery) why if you were going to relink the two lines would you approach it from that angle? I remember doing the 3 peaks yacht race some years back and crossing the WHR going out to Snowdon, and passing Llanberis on returning. Whilst it was the early hours of the morning I remember seeing the lake railway on the opposite side of the lake, and on my way back to meet the yacht at Carnarvon passing several tunnels and other bits of disused railway infrastructure. I may be getting the wrong end of the stick but it would seem to me if you were going to start linking the two systems, then approaching from the WHR end would be the most logical way to go about starting it (and the more expensive and labour intensive Blaenau option would come later). Or am I missing something?
     

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