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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. meeee

    meeee Member

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    You would have to get up earlier, but it is possible to do it the other way round. With a longer break in Porthmadog. Getting the 10:00 ex Caernarfon and then the 15:50 ex Porthmadog.

    Tim
     
  2. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    But that makes it a bit more unsociable for those not fully into railways. The 0925 departure from Chester, return at 2005 was counted as acceptable and enjoyable, especially for those of us coming from further than Chester. To do it anti-clockwise means an 0800 departure from Chester, which is daft o'clock get up - not necessarily acceptable for those not as dedicated as others.
     
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  3. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    Also not running Fridays. I think that the number of trains outside the peak season has increased slightly and the vintage trains are, I believe, a good move. They are popular on the TR. However I am slightly surprised that the WHR appear to be cutting the number of trains overall as the whole length has been open less than 10 years and I would have hoped passenger numbers would still be fairly buoyant. Hopefully they are and the changes are not an indication that passenger figures are in total less than expected but more an indication of a shifting pattern in when numbers want to travel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  4. meeee

    meeee Member

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    For me it seems that the F&WHR has something that most preserved railways only dream of. It doesn't just have one destination, it has 4 tourist honeypots. Porthmadog, and now increasingly the Blaenau/Conway valley area, and also Caernarfon and Beddgelert. The first two are being well exploited by the railway. Earlier trains to Blaenau seem to be popular now more people start and end their day at that end. If you turn up at Porthmadog even out of peak season you are spoilt for options. Long expensive train ride up the WHR or cheaper shorter ride up the FR. If you miss the WHR train you still have other options.

    Turn up at Caernarfon and it is a different story. You get one shot at an expensive round trip in the morning. Then a half journey in the afternoon to a car park and some toilets. Oh and you have to change trains to come back. If you want to visit that touristy village of Beddgelert you can get the 10:00 train but you'll need to keep everyone occupied for 4 hours before you can come back and if you miss that train you're screwed. Not really an easy sell for Caernarfon booking office.

    Personally i think the WHR needs to develop activities between Caernarfon and Beddgelert if it is really going to succeed beyond the honeymoon period. There are more than enough trains out of Porthmadog already. How you do this isn't easy without more resources, but there doesn't seem much point building an expensive station and then not running any trains from it.

    Tim
     
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  5. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Very good point about Caernarvon and Beddgelert.
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Do I detect the ghost of WHR(1923) services past?
     
  7. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Earl of Merioneth fans might like to know that its last public working will be the 13:35 to Blaenau on Sunday 8th April.

    It will most likely be working daily on the Festiniog from the 24th March up to that date. As ever check the online roster first though if you want to ride behind it.

    Tim
     
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  8. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Common sense would say to run more trains from Canaerforn and Portmadog to Beddgellert using existing FR stock or even obtaining smaller WHR motive power, it's where a lot of tourists want to go as its the primary honeypot and works well during the Great and Small Gala.

    The factor is, however, the Snowdonia National Park Authority. They put the kibosh on both WHHR and FR plans to reopen the line as far as Beddgelert back in the day. They did not want Beddgelert to become a carpark for people to pile on the train and is why they said they'd only permit it for a full opening strategy all the way to Dinas Junction/Caernarfon.

    10 years on, it might be wise to relook at that, numbers are increasing for North welsh tourism (it enjoyed a 15% rise last year and 12% the year before from what I can see) and that's an awful lot of cars no doubt traipsing their way around or through the national park that could otherwise be taken by train... proper warning or advertisement that Beddgelert has very limited parking facilities and a good, aggressive marketing campaign (The FR/WHR's good at them) and it sounds like a bit of a money winner to me...

    But again, the National Park comes to mind, they might still say no.
     
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  9. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    As I recall, the primary factor behind SNP's support was precisely to reduce the need for cars around the National Park's honeypots. If Beddgelert doesn't fit that criteria, I genuinely don't know where does. One wonders how the village's traders feel about things.

    I understand RhE/WHR is hardly flush with locos powerful enough for many more full length trains - or modern stock*, come to that, but surely Beddgelert must be losing out on tourism under present arrangements. The local bus services aren't too bad, by rural standards, but a steam train journey they sure as hell ain't!
    https://bustimes.org/localities/beddgelert

    Although received wisdom is that there's been something of a thaw in relations in the past couple of years, is there still friction between 'the powers that be' at the RhE(FR/WHR) and WHHR? And is said friction still centred on the reconstruction? If so, I have to say I think it's gone on quite long enough.

    *Us lot may be cool with century old compartment and four wheeled stock, but it doesn't follow it goes down so well with today's tourists.
     
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  10. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    I think the main issue they had back then was that the lack of parking facilities, and space/desire to build them at Beddgelert if it became a terminus. This is why they pushed for the line to run right through the park and out the other side into Caernarfon. The issue, as I can see it, is if a train terminates there then people would (quite rightly) assume they could embark from there as well. With large car parking facilities in both Portmadog and Caernarfon it does seem like a bit of a no-brainer and it certainly makes me wonder why they haven't pursued it as a potential way of offering more of a service, and why external forces might still be at play.
     
  11. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    The FR/WHR is not really in the transport business though plus it's an expensive way to get to Beddgelert. If I understand the fares on the railway's site, it would cost £61 return from Caernarfon-Beddgelert for two adults and two sprogs. Relieving pressure on roads in the National Park plays well at the planning stage (no doubt the L&B also played the same card), but the (ahem) "aspirational" timetables on p 78 of Rushton's magnum opus drawn up in 1993 showing eight daily departures from Caernarfon (in addition to projected Dinas shuttles) were probably known to be unrealistic at the time but unlikely to be challenged.
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Now I think back, I do seem to recall restrictions on terminating trains at Beddgelert due to concerns over the gradient through the station. Perhaps being forced to extend northbound 'short' workings to Rhyd Ddu and southbound to Hafod Llyn might have restricted the options of RhE/WHR?

    Historically, the BoT (later the MoT) prevented station openings completely due to such concerns. This certainly happened on the Horsham - Guildford Direct, where the requirement to lessen the 1:80 grade (which I believe is less than through Beddgelert) at Rudgewick Station to 1:130 led to an interesting bridge rebuild.

    I wonder whether a mobile braking tender at Beddgelert might meet safety requirements to satisfy DfT conditions? Time for some braking tests perhaps?

    Disused bridge at Rudgewick, Cranleigh Line:
    dsc09832.jpg.cf.jpg
    Image courtesy of: muddybike.wordpress.com
     
  13. talyllyn1

    talyllyn1 Member

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    I too remember objections to trains terminating at Beddgelert, but it was the SNPA who didn't want more cars parked in the village.
    There were mutterings on the various FR forums about HMRI not allowing running-round of passenger trains at Bedd. because of the gradient. This lead to many suggestions, such as a hand braked vehicle at each end and trap points with a sand drag at the Port. end of the loop.
    These have not been provided, but there have been Port-Bedd. and return workings occasionally (including running round) since complete reopening.

    The FR have given various reasons why there are no Caernarfon-Beddgelert shuttle services:-

    Insufficient coaching stock and suitable locos. Blodge are steadily building new carriages, sufficient to have two 9-car rakes of WHR outline stock. The FR outline carriages currently used to make up the sets will then become "spare".

    Lack of line flexibility with staff and ticket working. An innovative METS system is under development, but nothing has been made public about progress for some time.

    Lack of sufficient staff (paid or volunteer) to regularly man extra trains from the Caern. end.

    Last, but by no means least, it is more profitable to offer a "full line" service. Shuttles from Port. to Minffordd and Tanybwlch were tried some years ago and the conclusion was that this just took would-be travellers away from the full return to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

    I suspect that this will all change when the new Caernarfon station is finished. It will have to be staffed all day regardless of the number of trains using it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  14. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    100% agree that heritage lines aren't workaday transport, so I'd best clarify that my own comments [Post #1008] about bus accessibility to/from Beddgelert were with regard to days out by visitors.

    The flipside is that many visitors don't actually need any form of public transport, but for those who do, bus enthusiasts aside, a journey on a timetabled local service is unlikley to be high on the list of holiday aspirations, whereas a train trip, especially steam hauled, is (hopefully) a highlight in itself.

    Traders in Beddgelert reliant on tourist income aren't going to be too fussed how tourists get to the village .... just as long as they do. From the point of view of business rates receipts resulting from a healthy economy, so are the local authoritiy.

    So far as fares are concerned, organised coach trips often offer better value for money, by means of arrangements more favourable than combined family tickets. Several lines have offered discounted diesel hauled options (the FR 'Early Bird' services were reasonably successful for some years), though I suspect marketing of these needs particularly careful handling to ensure a line isn't detracting from it's core business elsewhere. If cheaper diesel trains attract an extra portion of an areas overall visitors, well and good. If they only succeed in poaching the ones who would otherwise have forked out for the full monty, not well and good!
     
  15. Leafent

    Leafent New Member

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    The obvious loco for any kind of intermediate service in the short term would be the K1, and if the political issues could be sorted out, some of the engines based on the WHR.
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    You mean "Russell" don't you? One practical issue is that the WHHR is air braked, so services would of necessity also have to use their (heritage and recreation) stock, which there's not an awful lot of.

    AFAIK, K1 is OOS awaiting overhaul. I'm uncertain whether it's on a priority turnaround. The NG15 being restored at Dinas is coming back together (not sure about status of it's boiler), but it'll be some time before it's ready for service.
     
  17. ADJF

    ADJF New Member

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    WHHR had the opportunity to provide vacuum brakes on Russell during its last major overhaul. Wasn't it previously dual braked but they made the decision to take off the vacuum brake equipment? I am glad to see that the company are trailing the running of a shorter service with a bookable heritage service between Dinas and Rhyd Ddu (http://www.festrail.co.uk/content/publish/specialevents/548.shtml) along the NWNGR.

    The redevelopment of Beddgelert Forest campsite into an "executive holiday village" (priced outside the reach of many families who would have previous stayed in the area) may reduce the footfall of visitors to both Beddgelert village and the FFWHR. It will be interesting to see if this reduces the number of passenger journeys as Meillionen halt was a popular journey starting point for campsite visitors. Maybe this could be the trigger to open up the possibility of a short Porthmadog Beddgelert service using a pre-bookable shorter train length service?
     
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  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    March video update is available. If this was the quietest day at Blodge to make the recording, no wonder it's been a wee while! There are some snippets in this update of interest to IOMSR and R&ER types too. Nowt on "Welsh Pony" tho'. Check out the frozen waterfall and "Linda's" stunning exhaust in sub-zero conditions.

    The clip is embedded in Barrie Hughes' 'Isengard' site, at the news entry for 15/3/18:
    http://isengard.co.uk
     
  19. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Quick link to it here:
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ta. Looked around without success earlier.
     

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