GWR 2859

Because it's total gibberish and makes no sense

Are you ever going to answer any of the other questions that have been asked in this thread?


Keith

 

If I were him I don't think I'd bother to reply to most of the sarcastic and condescending questions that have been made in all these threads. I really don't know what you guys think you are achieving with all this bashing and so on. There's a proverb about people who repeat the same action and expect a different result. If Mr Reeder is just a hopeless optimist making plans that don't come to anything he's not doing any significant harm. If on the other hand he and his mates do get a team together and achieve something with their enthusiasm and optimism then if half the preservation movement has alienated themselves from his mates that would most definitely be a bad thing

The preservation movement has shot itself in the foot (even blown feet right off) on a number of occasions in the past with ultimately pointless feuding and personal quarrels. One of the things you knockers are doing is giving a role model to the youngsters of more feuding, bashing and personal quarrels. Is this wise?

I'm reminded of this famous cartoon I'm sure you've all seen.

​

Someone is always wrong on the Internet. Usually its better to just keep quiet rather than stir things up and make them worse. Its a hard lesson to learn though, and it occurs to me that I've probably made a post like this before and am failing to take my own advice...

 

I must confess that I coaxed Stuart to answer some questions here, how about we let him have one last chance and ask some sensible questions.
My single question is this; why do you feel the need to start to restore something yourself rather than join another preservation group and help? I'm not really sure what answer I'm expecting, but it's what everyone has been saying and thinking. If nothing else Stuart, at least answer this.

 

I cannot understand how you manage to keep changing your mind, you and your group should look long and hard at your aims, and before going public, make sure of several things.
1. That your chosen project is not already being done.
2. That it is worthwhile, viable and possible.
Then get a proper financial plan worked out with details of where you are going to get the money from, not just 'we think', but actual promises, then set regular targets to aim for.
If and when all this is complete do you then go public, and set up a proper web site. Only then will people begin take a bit of notice that your intentions are based on sound principals and not pipe dreams.

A proper web site, despite what you may think, carries a lot more credibility that a FB page with 'likes' from those who don't know you and are only interested in adding more 'friends' to their list. You only have to look at the majority of people you have attracted to the present FB page, are they really interested, do they actually know what you are trying to do and if so do they really give a damn.

 

I think that we all would like to know the answer to that, i think its small cog in large wheel thing, by running your own thing your a large cog in a small wheel,
common sence would tell most people to get in with a group already doing up a 28xx and with other like minded people on board you stand a better chance to get peoples interest on 2859 and if you can buy it, keep it in reserve whilst the group restore and finish the first 28xx then you have the people and the skills to carry on to 2859, and when ordering parts etc, you may get a better deal ,its surprising how much stuff appears, just ask the lads and lasses working on 4253 what they have been able to get, and they have another GW 56 waiting in the wings.

 

There are none.

The iron curtain fell near 25 years ago, nothing was found.
the internet was born, what exists is documented, there are forums and lists of steam equipment across the internet in every language.

To turn up something "new" would really only happen in a place distant from the internet, without a steam interest locally, economically very poor and on a path not well treaden by western enthusiasts… I can only think of parts of Africa, Middle East, North Korea and possibly Central America.

whats known of ex Std Gauge UK designed for UK usage classes overseas...

1x 8F in Iraq
2x going spare in Turkey
1 x in Israel
3x ROD 2-8-0 in Australia + an exMersey railway loco
2x A4s in North America
1x J94 in Tunisia
1x WD 2-10-0 + J94s in Netherlands & Belgium
4/5 WD 2-10-0 in Greece…

any more ?

what "could" have potential.. Syria (unlikely), Iran (possible), Iraq (doubtful), Azerbaijan (?), China (very unlikely), North Korea (very unlikely).

British Std Gauge Products built and exported is a bit more, and its a shame theres little interest in what is there as some of this would be massively more historic if restored and displayed in the UK and much of it is actually under threat.

 

2ft gauge Manning Wardle 2-6-2 in Brazil? ;-) (fingers crossed...)


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Terrier Waddon somewhere across the big pond.

 

RSH 0-6-0T in the USA

 

A small number of diesel shunters in Italy.

 

apart from the pure fact that the mixed traffic locomotive group would like to see 2859 saved rather than scrapped , i cant remember which thread it was under but i was told why build a new build why not get involved with a restoration first and this is what im doing , getting a restoration team together to buy and restore 2859 .

hope this helps if not alot a little

 

Im not at school

 

once we have the money in we can buy and move it

we could always hire a tender till we have built our own

i personally have possibly found a set of motions

 

that was ment as mixed traffic locomotive group page is closing but The mixed Traffic Locomotive group page is staying open

 

Unfortunately for Stuart's group I think anyone wanting to see another 2800 running will tend to lend their support to 2874. If his ambition is to lead a project it might be wiser to be less ambitious as the ideas he's had so far are all beyond the scope if just volunteer labour and would, realistically need one or two major investors to get things moving and I'm sure that whoever pays the piper will also want to call the tune.

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Perhaps if this scheme fails, the best hope for 2859 might be a move to Rolvenden! Swindon seems slowly to be taking over there anyway, and judging by the impressive progress on 4253, the restoration group might be tempted by a new challenge once 5668 is complete too .

 

I wonder what the current owners of 2859 think of this ?

If I owned a loco and wanted to sell it, and a bunch of lets say "optimistic" groupies showed up declaring their desire to buy, without obvious funds / credibility / recognition / skills / home base and limited support, I know I wouldnt be too thrilled as it could put off a serious buyer, devalue the price, dissuade others as they may believe there is a group already.

Indeed it could even affect the very survival of the loco in the future...

Locos were lost in the 60's due to a group declaring an intention to buy, therefore potentially being avoided by others only to see that same group fail / divert attention elsewhere, thus the scrapping of the that engine.

 

According to '2859 Preservation Society', '2859 was discovered by Stuart Reeder on the Llangollen Railway...'
I wasn't aware the loco had been lost...

A post on their latest new Facebook site (seriously Stuart, how many times are you going to change it?), the 'manager' of the group has 'begged' for funds from a friend of the facebook poster. The issue of charitable status has been raised again and promptly dismissed by the group because they have a constitution (where though?)

This group needs to get a grip - Stuart please look at this: http://www.national-preservation.co...ll-ever-really-work.32387/page-19#post-467588 - there are 9 points there that you said you were going to work through for one of your previous new build projects, can I ask why you think it is no longer necessary to apply the same basic checklist to 2859? There is numerous other advice in that thread that was given to you to try to give your project credibility, but you are ignoring it all - why?

Three final questions:

1. How much have you raised so far?
2. How much have you personally donated?
3. Is the donated money going into an account in the name of the group and if so who has access?

Keith

 

Maybe the undergrowth had got a bit long up in North Wales?

OK, clutching at straws here...

Tom