GWR 'Dean Goods' no. 2516 - suggested restoration in Steam Railway issue no. 401

I don't think the Dean single idea comes from a preserved railway, but from Didcot, where they will soon run out of space to store the out of ticket engines they have, because all they want to do is build new locos. Unfortunately they can't seem to finish any of them, so they'll end up with no working engines before too long. Common sense doesn't play any part in it, the Saint conversion is interesting and still a reasonably sensible loco, the ideas that followed aren't.
Daniel

 

An active single wheeler would probably have sufficient novelty value to be an earner in the right circumstances - used occasionally and sensibly once the build itself had been funded. Used in that way it would not need massive sums to be spent every 10 years.

 

as where the 0-6-0 dean goods locomotive would be able to work on preserved railways all season , so will be earning enough within say for example 5 -6 years to do its overhaul and have some left towards her next overhaul unless it needs repairs in the meantime.

 

I think it would cope ok with 4 or 5 mk1's as 6412 copped with 5 or 6 on the WSR up the likes of washford and crowcombe bank and the dean is just as good as 6412 and a few years ago 3205 copped with I think it was 4 or 5 aswell on the same line and 3205 is the same size loco as the dean goods , so I don't see why it should not cope

 

Apart from the 41xx to be finished this year, Pendennis Castle coming along, 1369 coming to the end of extensive frame surgery, 7202 not a million miles away. 2x panniers in ticket (I think - 3738 had some unexpected boiler work), 6023, 5322, railmotor, DRC - its not exactly looking sparse is it?

The one thing that Didcot does well is allocate teams to each loco which lets them move forward. I am not saying that everything is ideal but it does get my back up when people make such peculiar and unsubstantiated statements.

 

Perhaps, as the person who first mentioned the proposal to build a 'Single' at Didcot, I can refer you to the source of my "unsubstantiated statement". It referred to a thread posted on 'Model Engineering Clearing House' by the chap (Taff) who stated that he was in the process of producing some of the drawings for it. I suggest you have a look here: http://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/7906/gwr-1361-class-5-gauge?page=5

Ray.

 

My view is that wandering Dean Goods might just be in sufficient demand to earn its keep but, like all these projects, it would be better based on a railway where thee is the expertise and enthusiasm to do it. Somewhere like the East Somerset, for instance, where train lengths are in the region of what it could pull. I think its capabilities may have been overestimated on this forum, look at the L & Y 0-6-0 for guidance in that respect. 2-3 Mk 1 1s is probably more realistic, bearing in mind that Mk 1s were quite a lot heavier than the coaches they replaced.

 

thanks for the information

 

However I think a lot of people are looking for excuses to run bigger motive power than they really need. Look at the pictures published by Gary Walker on another thread showing IOWSR Freshwater" hauling three bogies which she will do all day long (plus one bogie or four wheeler if necessary I think). No horrible and overweight Mk.1's on the Garden Isle though!

The message is clear, keep tare weight, engine size and costs down. It will get ever more important as time goes on.

PH

 

Sorry on what business model and with what experience do you base this on?

I think any notion that a loco can earn enough to fund a full overhaul in 5 years is far fetched to say the least, as is the other notion that it will need nothing spent on it during that period of running. You then need to explore the different options; full over and run until it dies or the more pragmatic planned preventative maintenance.

I would be interested to know of your business model as I think it is exceedingly rose tinted and naive.

 

Ray

I think you have misinterpreted my comment, my suggestion was that an unsubstantiated statement had been made by the poster who suggested that Didcot was about to run out of operational locomotives when the evidence I quoted confirmed they have a range of loco's in ticket or heading in the right direction.

For the record I sincerely hope that a Dean Single wheeler is constructed, if people want to put new builds forward and they can get funding the more the merrier I say.

 

You'll find something about it at the bottom of this page. http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/news/latest.html. You'll note that this is a very long term project, and they make it clear that there are likely to be years of information gathering and finding and creation of drawings before they get as far as even cutting the first piece of met, so the chances of it taking resources from Saint, Pendennis or many of the other current projects have to be minimal.

 

4707, Sorry for misinterpreting your comment. ' Can't help feeling though, that a reconstructed 'Dean Goods' using the boiler from the P&B might be a more useful bit of kit for the average heritage railway than a 'Single' and hope the group purchasing the boiler have more experience than either of the existing 'Dean Goods' groups. Ray.

 

Presume you mean 1363 ?, Buckfastleigh might be somewhat miffed someone's nicked their "Weymouth Pannier" otherwise.

 

I've never really understood why that Didcot boiler remains part of the site lease between NR and the GWS, what use are NR going to have for an ancient boiler should they ever decide they require the site in future ?.

 

That's true - but... Sadly, the likelihood of any preserved railway that hasn't already made a significant investment in getting wooden coaches actually acquiring any is now probably very small. So the likelihood is that, excepting the SVR, NYMR, IoWSR, Bluebell, KESR, KWVR, Embsay and one or two others (none of which look like immediately obvious bedfellows for a new build Dean Goods), Mark 1s are the likely carriages on offer...

Tom (smug in the knowledge we can put out an 80 ton train with 228 seats, but knowing not many other railways can!)

 

On the subject of Dean Goods vs. Dean Single, my belief is - however mad as an operational loco - I'll see a Dean Single running in my lifetime before I see a Dean Goods.

Tornado has demonstrated that, from an engineering point of view, new builds are possible. So it comes down to finance, which is cost minus income. In that context, cheaper is not necessarily better, in the sense that a project that has more "wow" factor and thus generates a bigger support base may actually be more financially viable.

Very loosely, a Dean Single will cost more than a Dean Goods mostly on account of having more wheels, and more different sizes, so more patterns. At a level of fag packet calculation, both are moderate size non-superheated boiler, inside cylinder and motion tender engines. So the single may be 10 or 20% more to construct than the Goods, but that will be outweighed by the fact that a Single will have a real "wow" factor as something unique, whereas the Goods - however operationally useful it might be on a smaller railway - will always be a bit "so what?", especially as the end product won't even be unique. If I want to see a Dean Goods, I can go to Swindon. There doesn't really strike me as enough pizazz about the original locos to make it worth putting a million or so into building a new one. I fully accept that late Victorian or Edwardian 0-6-0s are in many ways the typical loco of this country, and for many lines would represent an ideal traffic loco. But given a big glamour express engine costing £1.5m to construct that can raise money at £100k per year, or an ideal traffic loco costing £1million that can only generate £20k per year, which one do you think will be finished first?

For use in traffic - at least at Didcot, that's largely an irrelevance! Certainly, were I the fundraising person, I'd much rather be set the challenge of raising money for the Single than the Goods. (And the proof of the pudding is at the Bluebell: however much you want to debate the relative merits of an Atlantic vs a BR standard 2mt as a traffic loco, as far as I can see, the Atlantic is winning the funding race hands down).

Tom

 

Um Gwili.. By the time this is built we should have a set of 3 or 4 great western 4 wheelers

 

Yes, apologies, you were in the "one or two others..." But I'd argue the Gwili is another railway that has already made a substantial investment in pre-Mark 1 coaches. For those lines that aren't already making moves in that direction, I suspect the drawbridge is already raised, especially with regard bogie coaches - 4 wheelers are still reasonably common, but bogie coaches are essentially largely gone or claimed.

Tom